EMT #21 - Beyond the Booth: How to Rethink Exhibitor Success with Jessica Sibila

In this insightful episode of Event Marketer’s Toolbox, hosts Chris Dunn and Dana Esposito are joined by Jessica Sibila, Executive Director of The Exhibitor Advocate—a nonprofit championing the voice of exhibitors.

With years of hands-on experience and data-backed insights, Jessica takes us inside the real exhibitor experience. From budgeting chaos to communication gaps with show organizers, she lays out the fundamental disconnects facing exhibitors—and what the industry can do to fix them.

You’ll hear practical advice and strategic takeaways for both exhibitors and event professionals looking to improve trade show ROI and attendee experiences.

🔹 Exhibitor Sentiment Is Still Positive—but Misunderstood

70% of exhibitors find value in trade shows, especially for brand awareness and customer connections—but it’s no longer just about leads. Many are shifting their event KPIs and need support that aligns with new expectations.

🔹 Budgeting Is Broken

Exhibitors aren’t just struggling with high costs—they’re struggling with unpredictable costs. Service manuals that arrive 60 days before a show (for booths contracted 18 months earlier) make accurate budgeting nearly impossible.

🔹 ROI Requires Reinvention

Data collection remains a weak spot. As leadership demands measurable ROI, exhibitors are stuck trying to justify intangible benefits like “face-to-face value.” Jessica advocates for a smarter split between revenue-generating and non-revenue spend.

🔹 Exhibits Are Getting Boring

With half or more of budgets going to non-visible services, booth creativity suffers. Attendees notice. Show organizers must recognize this spiral—costs → dull exhibits → poor attendee experience → lower turnout—and start reversing it.

🔹 Advocacy Is Everyone’s Job

Jessica calls on event marketers, exhibit houses, and show organizers to collaborate—and on exhibitors to speak up. She emphasizes the importance of contacting show operations (not just sales) and using tools like The Exhibitor Advocate to be heard.

If you’re an exhibitor, event marketer, or show organizer—this episode is for you. Share it with your team, your clients, or your show partners. Let’s raise the bar together.

👉🏼 Join us for more insightful discussions like this by tuning into 'Event Marketer's Toolbox,' where industry leaders share the tools, tactics, and trends driving success in the event world.

This Show is sponsored by Blue Hive

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Chapters

• 1:39 What is The Exhibitor Advocate?
• 4:39 Current Sentiment: Why 70% Still Find Value in Trade Shows
• 7:39 The Real Reason Face-to-Face Still Matters
• 10:39 Cost Chaos: Budgeting Pains and Show Services
• 14:39 Revenue vs. Non-Revenue Spend Explained
• 17:39 Why ROI Feels Impossible to Prove
• 20:39 Budget Blindspots: The Geography Cost Gap
• 23:09 $407 Barstools and Other Price Tags That Kill ROI
• 26:39 Who Show Organizers Should Be Listening To
• 29:39 The Death of Booth Creativity and Design Constraints
• 33:09 How Designers Are Being Handcuffed
• 35:09 How to Empower Exhibitors to Advocate for Themselves
• 37:09 Spiraling Value: When Less Leads to Less
• 42:39 Working with Unions, GCs, and Show Ops
• 46:39 Why Organizers Need Exhibitor Advisory Councils
• 50:39 Jessica’s Final 3 Tips for Driving Change
• 53:39 How to Join The Exhibitor Advocate

Transcript

Chris Dunn: [00:00:00] Hello everybody and welcome to the Exhibitor Toolbox, actually, the Event Marketers Toolbox. Where am I? I'm, I'm missing my brain today. Uh, I think it's just so that I'm so excited. I've got Dana back as my co-host and Jessica Silla has joined us. It's gonna be a great show. Uh, I'm Chris Dunn. I'm with BlueHive Exhibits and I'm gonna kick it over to my co-host, Dana.

Dana Esposito: Hi everyone. So I'm Dana Esposito. I'm the EVP of Strategy at BlueHive Exhibits. I help lead creative and corporate strategy. And I'm bananas. Excited to have Jessica with us today. Um, took, I was gonna take a vacation day. I said no, Jessica's gonna be there. I'm gonna be there. So Jessica, you wanna introduce yourself.

Jessica Sibila: Yeah, I appreciate it. I'm so excited to be here with you guys. My name is Jessica Silla. I am the Executive Director of the Exhibitor Advocate. Uh, the exhibitor advocate for those who don't know, is the only nonprofit trade association [00:01:00] wholly dedicated to exhibitor success. We amplify the voice of exhibitors, uh, sharing their perspective and their pain points.

Jessica Sibila: With the industry. We provide education and resources to exhibitors to help them navigate those pain points. And then we work collaboratively with industry stakeholders so that they can understand the perspective of exhibitors and we can work together to find solutions that not only benefit the exhibitor, but benefit the industry as a whole.

Chris Dunn: Wow. That's pretty freaking cool. So this has been something that, that, um, I personally have been looking forward to for a long time. Um, Jessica, we've been connected for a while on, on LinkedIn, um, but I saw you at, at the exhibitor live show a couple of months ago and I ran over to your booth and I was like, you gotta be on, you know, a guest on our show because what you guys are doing is so important, um, you know, as an exhibit.

Chris Dunn: House an exhibit. We become, [00:02:00] uh, you know, the, an extension of people's marketing teams. We are their partner and we're doing our best to try to help them. And man, this landscape is just really difficult to, to, to navigate. So before we jump full, you know, full throttle into our conversation, just wanted to take a brief second, talk a little bit about our sponsors.

Chris Dunn: So. Again, I'm Chris Dunham with BlueHive Exhibits. Uh, BlueHive is one of our sponsors. We are a creative agency. We're located East Coast and West Coast. We're kind of that right sized group. We're about a hundred people or so. We're, we're a little bigger than a boutique, but we're, we're not really the big guys.

Chris Dunn: We're the right size for a lot of different companies out there who have specific needs. Who need creativity, uh, and need a national and really a, a fully go globalized footprint with partnerships. Um, we also work with our, our partners from a company called Fist Bump. Fist Bump is the agency that is actually helping us run this podcast.

Chris Dunn: I. Uh, and this live show, and they're a group that I kinda ran into a couple years ago. Initially they were [00:03:00] coaching me on, on my LinkedIn presence and kind of help, help, uh, us as a company kind of get our social media game together. And they brought forth the idea of like. A podcast would be great for you guys to tell your story and to bring in other people to tell their story.

Chris Dunn: You raise, um, a, a thought leadership, uh, profile, right? You become, um, kind of known in the industry. And that's our goal. We're we're building a community of like-minded event professionals here, uh, who can kind of get together, share ideas, um, and I think try to just raise the bar for, you know, everybody across the board.

Chris Dunn: So, thanks. To, uh, to our behind the scenes producer, Juana and all those folks at Fist Bump who do a great job, uh, all the heavy lift, take out that load off of us and just keep it super simple. So, um, with that said, I'm gonna kick it back to, uh, to Dana to, uh, to start off our, our many, many questions and do the deep dive with Jessica.

Chris Dunn: So. You folks out there who, especially who are event managers, um, really, you know, [00:04:00] take out your notepad, write some stuff down, uh, and then you're gonna wanna reach out to Jessica and her organization because becoming, uh, involved with them will, will do everyone really, uh, a lot, a lot of good I. 

Dana Esposito: All right, so I'm gonna get us started.

Dana Esposito: So we wanna talk a little bit, Jessica, what you feel the state of exhibitor sentiment is out there. Like basically how are exhibitors feeling about trade shows today and like what's working well from their perspective or like where are there areas of friction? I. For them. 

Jessica Sibila: Yeah, so we just, uh, surveyed our exhibitors, uh, at the end of 2024.

Jessica Sibila: Uh, there's a report on our website called the 2024, uh, state of the Event Industry from the perspective of event and exhibit marketers. What we found from their perspective was that, uh, there's some really good news, some really positive news. 70% of exhibitors still find value in the trade show channel, and they find value in their programs that are doing these live [00:05:00] events, these trade show exhibits.

Jessica Sibila: So when we ask them what it is that's valuable about trade shows, they tell us it's things like brand or product awareness, which is interesting that that's number one, because in the past it's been things around leads. Mm-hmm. Leads actually fell to number three in this survey. So exhibitors that are finding value really are looking at their programs for brand and product awareness and also for con um, connecting with existing customers.

Jessica Sibila: So it's not kind of what it was in the past where it's all about leads and sales, that is still important. It's just not rising to the top. So I think as we consider the challenges that we talk about, remembering this positive sentiment and this positive attitude is really important and I. We need to address the challenges and we are right.

Jessica Sibila: Jessica, 

Chris Dunn: if I could, yeah. Can I just interrupt for a quick sec? Yeah. Before we kind of go to those challenges, kind of leaning into the, [00:06:00] the positivity of it, uh, do you think that it's, I mean here we are, we're a few years post covid, right? We're, we're kind of back things, at least on our end, felt pretty normal in 2024.

Chris Dunn: So 2025 we're, we're, we're well past that stuff, right. That we all know that happened when events shut down entirely. But like you said. Kind of what people are going to shows for maybe has, has morphed or changed. And I, I'm wondering, as a salesperson who's on a lot of Zoom calls and, you know, teams calls and stuff like that with my clients, we're missing that personal connection.

Chris Dunn: Right? Uh uh, we used to drive and we used to go sit in boardrooms and sit in in conference rooms. Not only to do our presentations, but just to have our meetings and, and there was more face-to-face and there was, we were belly to belly, mono, we mono. Right? And there's that human touch to it. So I'm wondering, and maybe this is just subjective guess, but are people using the trade shows to make sure that they have that ability to really reach out and touch their, their customers as a, for instance, and raise their brand awareness in a [00:07:00] face-to-face real live environment?

Chris Dunn: W which we used to take for granted back in, you know. 17, 18 and 19 and then 20 happened, and then here we are. Right now we're all remote and or most of our meetings are on screen, much like what things look like right here. I don't know, just thoughts on kind of why maybe some of those things have happened.

Jessica Sibila: Yeah, absolutely. I think face-to-face interaction is absolutely the driver for the excitement and success of our industry. Uh, during COVID, we got very comfortable and very familiar with different channels of marketing, but there is nothing that replaces that face-to-face connection. And so to pair that opportunity, that face-to-face connection with being able to showcase your product and have that hands-on experience with your product, that's incredibly valuable.

Jessica Sibila: So yes, I think you're right. It is the face-to-face connection. The flip side of it [00:08:00] just to, to give you both sides of that scenario though. Mm-hmm. And this touches a little bit on, on challenges, which we'll get to in a minute, but the cost has become so high that there's a lot more scrutiny on the shows that we go to where we invest our dollars.

Jessica Sibila: Mm-hmm. And so when we are thinking about what our options are for our program, there's a lot more focus on. How effective is that face-to-face connection going to be at that particular event? And is that where I want to invest my money? 

Chris Dunn: Right. I. Yeah, no. Makes sense. Right? The, the, the amount of investment has gone up, so the scrutiny goes up.

Chris Dunn: Um, I think same type of thing happens. My I two kids who graduated from college this week, which is, which is great. Um, congratulations. But the scrutiny, you know, those poor kids making the right decision because the cost of college is so expensive. 

Chris Dunn (2): Yeah. We 

Chris Dunn: were just talking about your experience in CU Boulder and my time in Boulder.

Chris Dunn: Um, not that I went there, but um. Yeah, [00:09:00] I think they feel a lot of the pressure, but related. 

Jessica Sibila: Yes, that's right. Yep. 

Chris Dunn: Interesting. Okay. Alright. So that's the happy, fluffy stuff is like, things are good, people are happy to be back together. I mean, again, going back to, you know, covid, not to keep revisiting that, but we, I think we learned and a lot coming out of that timeframe, people were so hungry to get back face-to-face.

Chris Dunn: They really realized how important that face-to-face marketing aspect was because we had. Been forced to miss it for a year or so. Um, yeah, but we saw the costs spiral upward and some of them were completely outta control. Things are a little bit more, you know, not, you know, double digit climbing and cost, uh, percentages necessarily.

Chris Dunn: But obviously everybody who's done shows knows that there are a lot of challenges. So tell us a little bit about kind of that, the, the negative side of, of kind of what's happened. 

Jessica Sibila: Yeah, the number one pain point for exhibitors right now is cost, and it's not knowing how to [00:10:00] budget for cost. They're telling us that the issue is the flat out cost of show services.

Jessica Sibila: So it's very specific. And when we're hearing from 88% of exhibitors that show services is a challenge for them, the next obvious question is, well then how are you addressing that challenge? And so what, I don't know if you wanna get into this quite yet, but uh, we'll talk about how they're addressing it here in a second.

Jessica Sibila: The second most. Uh, commented, pain point that exhibitors have is around data and measuring results. Mm-hmm. And so as we think about these pain points in total, right? We think about the cost going up and then having trouble measuring that those results. You really get into a challenging situation in that cost value equation if your costs continue to go up and you can't prove or justify the spend and prove that there's an ROI on that spend.[00:11:00] 

Jessica Sibila: The scrutiny becomes really difficult, right? And you don't have a justification for that spend. So exhibitors tell us that they're really challenged by their leadership to try to explain why these costs are so high, and then to try to explain how there's value in that. Intangible face-to-face connection that we know is important, but if it doesn't lead to writing a sale directly at that show, in that moment, how do you measure whether or not it was successful?

Jessica Sibila: And that really is the crux of the problem for exhibitors. Right. 

Dana Esposito: If I, if I put my design hat on for a second, I can, I can think of, so like, say, when I first started the industry, which is a long time ago, and I was trying to figure out like how much of, if a client says to us, uh, our total budget is X, Y, and Z, we'd be like, okay, maybe, maybe, you know, a, a, a quarter of [00:12:00] that would go to show services.

Dana Esposito: And then as time proceeded on, it was like, well, maybe a third of that right now that nowadays. If someone says to us, well, our total budget, including show services, you know, is in that number, the designer on that project is thinking, okay, well that's half half of my budget that I need to solve everything for this client.

Dana Esposito: Make sure they're functionally happy, aesthetically delivering a message, getting some sort of interactivity. All of the stuff is now half of their total budget, and there was actually a project. Two projects not long ago, um, where the show services was were more expensive than the exhibit and everything else with the exhibit.

Dana Esposito: And so, you know, as designer in a designer's head, they wanna make sure every dollar goes to good. They're trying to use that money as smart, like they don't wanna just be pretty, they want it to be purposeful and solve specific challenges for that, for their client. They're very thoughtful with that, very cautious with those dollars.

Dana Esposito: They treat them like their [00:13:00] own because they want the dollars to show. So that's very hard for us or, or me when I'm thinking as a design to think the show services are more expensive than, than the tool that's going to be shown and used. Yeah. Yeah, 

Jessica Sibila: we talk about this a lot. It, it's important for an event marketer to be able to explain costs to their leadership.

Jessica Sibila: What of their budget is non-revenue generating versus revenue generating spend. And so when you're looking at show services, material handling, electrical, wifi, these are non-revenue generating. Spend and they're going to, um, drive a majority of your budget sometimes, and that is something that you have to be able to explain from a designer's standpoint, helping your clients understand.

Jessica Sibila: The spend on things that are revenue generating, signage, [00:14:00] product, uh, activations, um, being able to create a hospitality type of environment and create a, a space where people want to stay and talk to you. These are ways that you're putting spend against conversations face-to-face engagement. Product display and, and, and activation and, and interaction with those products.

Jessica Sibila: That stuff is driving sales, whether it's right at that moment or it's a sales cycle that's much longer. So, uh, savvy exhibitors who are able to identify the difference between those two types of spend and get their leadership to. Understand why we're spending so much and be able to quantify the results from the spend that we are making into these events that will drive success for the event [00:15:00] marketer in terms of budgeting and also being seen as a strategic partner to their organization rather than a cost center.

Chris Dunn: Yeah, absolutely. So. Um, you know, we, we do shows also. We eat our own dog food, as it were. Uh, so we see the same challenges and, uh mm-hmm. You know, I was gonna ask, earlier you were talking a little bit about the separation of, uh, quantification and, and the ROI, um, uh. Listen, you know, data is such an important thing nowadays, and you think with all the tools that we have that capturing all the data and surrounding it is more simple than it used to be.

Chris Dunn: But I, I don't know that it is, right? It's, um, it's, it can be a extremely long game play, right? A long tail play. You go to a show, um, there are some shows I guess that, that still write orders right there, but for the most part, this is a long sales cycle. We've seen options where, uh, we, you know, don't even recognize, uh, an, an [00:16:00] opportunity for another year or two because, oh, hey, we're having, we're putting out an RFP, uh, you know, in 2028 and, and just starting the conversation, right?

Chris Dunn: So sometimes it's an extremely long game play and you gotta have a long-term outlook when you're investing those dollars. Uh, and at the end of the day, and, and I know we'll kind of circle back to this, but. When people are justifying that spend, a lot of times it means we're just not gonna go to as many shows because we need to be able to allocate the dollars that we have and do the best we can with them.

Chris Dunn: Right? Yeah. 

Jessica Sibila: Yeah. We have to remember that that's the help 

Chris Dunn: industry, I don't think. 

Jessica Sibila: Yes. Yeah. I, I, we're not. We're not just competing against other trade shows. Mm-hmm. I think it's important for show organizers to understand that it's not that my program dollars are being allocated between your show and somebody else's show.

Jessica Sibila: Right now they're, they're competing against other marketing channels. Yes. So if I'm getting more data and better ROI [00:17:00] from a different channel, my leadership is gonna press me to decrease my budget. And to put those dollars into something that is providing value. So to all the show organizers that are listening, sharing data and helping your exhibitors be able to quantify the value of their participation in your show is incredibly important because that will, again, when pairing that value with face-to-face connection.

Jessica Sibila: Exhibitor leadership cannot compete with that. Other channels cannot compete with that, but we have to be able to defend that spend. 

Chris Dunn: All right. Uh, just to kind of, I guess, you know, peel the onion back a little bit more. When, when you're talking to clients about, um, dollars that actually produce more dollars or dollars that don't Right.

Chris Dunn: For us, we kind of, unfortunately everybody is forced to look at it. Like it's just the cost of doing business. It is what it [00:18:00] is. Right. With regards to the dredge. It's expensive, but, but we have to send in the things and the stuff, right? And we gotta hang the sign. So there's rigging and there's electrical and the internet fluctuates.

Chris Dunn: One time it's 3000. The next show it's 20,000 for really the same service that I get for, basically for free in my house. Um, but okay, we we're forced to swallow these jagged pills across the board. Um, and we have to look at those, those big numbers. But that makes, that makes the, the getting, uh, or getting to the point where your ROI makes sense.

Chris Dunn: E even if those, even if the bulk of the dollars are going towards something, um, that don't really quantify, you know, uh, bringing in a lead, but they're just necessary evil along the way. 

Jessica Sibila: Yeah. That's a 

Chris Dunn: painful piece to understand. There's so many 

Jessica Sibila: points you bring up that are important there. It's, it's important for exhibitors, especially new exhibitors to the industry to understand that when we talk about electrical.

Jessica Sibila: In the show floor [00:19:00] environment, it is not the same as electrical In your home, you are going to experience higher costs. You have multiple parties that are touching the delivery of that electrical to your booth, and it's everyone from the venue to the general contractor, the union labor that is. Uh, placing that electrical, your exhibit house, who is putting together floor plans for how that electrical should be laid.

Jessica Sibila: There are so many different touch points, and that's a very different scenario than electrical in your home. You're going to have to be able to explain that to leadership because just like you, Chris, that's the, the understanding is I'm paying X dollars more for electrical versus what I pay at home y Right?

Jessica Sibila: You have to be prepared to answer to that. 

Chris Dunn: Right. And, and you know, to your, to your point with, especially with new exhibitors is like every show is a different deal. Every, yeah, every, [00:20:00] every city is a different, every venue is a different deal. And we see exhibitors who, who set, who set a budget based on, on, um, you know, Orlando, Florida, or Atlanta, Georgia, or New Orleans.

Chris Dunn: And then the next show they have is the same exact thing, right? Same booth, same thing. And they go to Chicago, they go to San Francisco or New York, and it's one and a half. Or or two X that spend. Yeah. And they're like, what? Why? Yeah. And they, they don't understand. So, and that's part of, you know, again, managing that expectation set and the budget.

Chris Dunn: Um. You know, it's better when it works the other way around, right? Like, Hey, we just did a show in Chicago next year we're, we're going down south where it's gonna be way cheaper. You're gonna be happy, but then eventually we're gonna come back north again. 

Jessica Sibila: That's right. And that's why the exhibitor advocate puts out the annual survey of exhibition rates every year.

Jessica Sibila: Perfect. It is so important for us to be able to budget for the shows when we're going to. Switch cities because like you said, every city's different. The unions are different. In those [00:21:00] cities, the venues are different, and so an exhibitor has to be able to plan for the spend in a different city. And when an exhibit, um, service manual or service kit doesn't come out until.

Jessica Sibila: 60 to 90 days before the show, but you're signing a booth contract 18 months before a show. How do you plan? How do you budget for that? So at least with the rate survey, you have the opportunity to understand what the average rates are across 23 cities in the us. And be able to determine how much am I gonna pay for material handling?

Jessica Sibila: What is the average rate that I'd pay for material handling and what's the average rate that I'd pay for something like carpet or a bar stool? When you have at least a baseline of a, of an average, at least you can help your leadership understand what percentage you anticipate your budget's gonna go up or down from the current spend that you have with the show.[00:22:00] 

Chris Dunn: Yeah, that's a, that's a great tool, uh, that, uh, that you just, that you just mentioned. That's super helpful for exhibitors across the board. We actually had a question. Sorry. We don't, uh, see a name here. We only see LinkedIn user, but there was a question, or their comment asked earlier, posed earlier, 407 bucks for a bar stool rental.

Chris Dunn: Right. So they don't own it. Yeah. It's for the right of using something. Um, and, uh, it's, it's hor it's, I mean, how do. It's the difficult, right? When you know that you could go to IKEA and got and get something, you know, similar for a hundred bucks, but well, that's you, that's exactly it. You ship it in, you gotta build it, right?

Chris Dunn: So, I mean, there's pros and cons with everything, but, but when the option that's presented on the floor is so expensive, it's difficult to wrap your head around. 

Dana Esposito: Yeah. Yeah. That was, uh, Stephanie, uh, Stephanie Rap who asked that question. So. 

Jessica Sibila: It's, it's the cost value equation, right? Exhibitors are willing to spend money if the value is there.

Jessica Sibila: So for some exhibitors [00:23:00] who have a very large budget. $407 for a bar stool might be okay for them. Uh, they might be willing to spend that because it saves them from having to do the, the runaround of getting the bar stool from our, from ikea. But for. The majority of exhibitors because when you look at a show floor, 80% of exhibitors fall into the 10 by 10 to 10 by 20 range.

Jessica Sibila: Okay. So when those are the booth sizes and smaller size exhibitors that we're talking about, $407 for a bar stool is, is it's a big deal. Ridiculous, right? Yeah. They're not, they're not gonna be able to spend that because that's just one line item in a, a line of other things. If the value is not there for them, then it's gonna be worth it for them to spend their time to run to ikea.

Jessica Sibila: And haul in those boxes because they can't roll 'em into the show [00:24:00] floor, but haul hand, carry those boxes in, set themselves, set it up themselves without any power tools, which takes longer, right. All those things that we do, those crazy activities that we do all to save a couple hundred dollars. Mm-hmm.

Jessica Sibila: And if we could get our show organizers and our supplier partners to understand that by. Lowering those costs and providing more value to the spend of those items, then our exhibitors will choose to to spend that money. Right? Your volume goes up when your cost will come down a little bit, but we have to be able to recognize where that sweet spot is, and right now we're not in it.

Dana Esposito: How do we get them to understand that? 

Jessica Sibila: So I think what's important here is for the show organizer to understand that the, the general contractors and the suppliers work for them. It is [00:25:00] their partner. It is That is, that is their, um, their. That's who they need to go to to talk about their exhibitor's costs.

Jessica Sibila: So this is a negotiation opportunity for the show organizer and they need to be putting an eye on what their exhibitor's costs are. The reason that this is so important, and this the reason that we point to the show organizer, is because as costs are going up for exhibitors, the solutions that they are putting into place.

Jessica Sibila: All affect the revenue of the show organizer. Exhibitors are decreasing booth size. They're decreasing their, the number of shows that they go to. They're, uh, eliminating or decreasing sponsorships that they do, and they're modifying their exhibit. Uh uh. Uh, activations, which then affect attendee experience, which also affects the show organizer [00:26:00] because if the attendees not having a positive experience, they're not gonna come back either.

Jessica Sibila: Mm-hmm. So if show organizers don't start looking at the exhibitor spend and working with their suppliers to address those rising costs. It's the show organizer who's gonna be affected. Mm-hmm. Not the GC or the other suppliers. Yeah. So this is their opportunity. 

Dana Esposito: Yeah. And so I'm very involved with the exhibit design community in our industry.

Dana Esposito: I'm a member of the EDPA, I'm on their board of directors. I run a mentorship program with Justin Doak, um, for the University Affiliation Committee. Um, and I deal with the. You know, the graduates of, of two universities who are basically cultivating not only exhibit diners, designers coming to our industry, but also now project managers and CAD engineers and things like that.

Dana Esposito: So I, you know, I've, this isn't, when I say. I dunno, I'm thinking from a designer's point of view, I'm not just talking about, you know, the design creative team at [00:27:00] BlueHive, um, but the bigger picture of all the designers out there who are really serving this industry and they're very concerned with a lot of the things that you're talking about.

Dana Esposito: Um, and even some of the ways, um, our clients are trying to, you know, mitigate these, the budget issues that they're up against, that they don't have control over. And that, you know, that we also as. Serving them don't have control over. And some of the things the designers are also really concerned about is.

Dana Esposito: We see that our clients and, and the budgets that we're given to work to solve for them, um, are, are challenged, right? That show service is more expensive. And then we also see, although we've always had rules and regulations, right? Mm-hmm. That we have to follow for every show's different. And that's fine.

Dana Esposito: You know, it's, it's a puzzle for us to figure out. We love a challenge. Um, but we see that the rules and regulations post covid has seemed to be coming even more stringent. Right? And some of them. Completely justifiable. Anything to do with safety, right? If it was [00:28:00] rigging or just anything with safety in any way where everyone was like, yep, check.

Dana Esposito: We we're on board with that. But some of them we get protective for our clients. Um. End goal and end game here. When we start thinking about some of the site lines, the number of traffic lines are becoming even more complex and rigid and stringent, or some of the setback rules, um, get bigger and bigger.

Dana Esposito: And if you think, if you don't have a very big booth, a setback rule, all of a sudden it's really limiting the amount of space that you're renting of concrete, right? Um, so we get very protective when the show we're very protective, but there's nothing we can do about it. So the budget's getting smaller, the budget's getting smaller.

Dana Esposito: Our client's booth might be getting smaller or going to less shows, right? Um, the service is getting more expensive. We're asking be to help them solve more, bring more to the table, like experiences, metrics, data, all of that's awesome. But then the rules and regulations, we feel like we're so protective of our clients.

Dana Esposito: We're like, but [00:29:00] you're not giving us a big. We are not giving us, meaning us for our client, a big place to play, right? Mm-hmm. Our playground for them to do and say everything they're trying to do in that short two, three day show. It, it's like if you picture a concrete square on a convention hall, right?

Dana Esposito: You picture that square and you picture it up to the sky, you own all the space above it, right? You don't. 

Chris Dunn (2): Mm-hmm. 

Dana Esposito: And, and so like when we get a, when we get, um, a request for a design where they're saying, you can use full q. Cubic content, we are like, yes, we can make such great things happen for this client, but with the rules and regulations getting more complex, or God forbid you have an island peninsula for your client, you're like, oh my goodness.

Dana Esposito: Um, not only is the booth not gonna look as aesthetically pleasing. I just feel like the show organizers should be, they need to help us more for their clients, because what's going to happen, I, I, I'll just say me, I won't blanket statement. All the other designers out there, [00:30:00] my fear is they're gonna be, everything's gonna get so expensive, and they're also gonna be taking so much away from them with rules and regulations that at some point they're gonna be like, what am I getting for this space?

Dana Esposito: It's so expensive. And even aside my space, there's so much I can't do. What's the point of going? You know, and I don't want them to lose that as part of their grand marketing plan and be able to have face-to-face interactions with clients. Because we know, and even just as a designer, even pre Covid, I loved, I would get on a plane all the time just to go meet our client and have an information discovery call, pick up with them or get on a plane just to go present.

Dana Esposito: And every time you have an opportunity to talk to someone in person, you're continuing to build that relationship and are. Our industry needs. You need to be so dependable for on your client. 'cause there's so much for these shows that are outta your hands. You need to be able to count on someone. Right?

Dana Esposito: And being able to talk to them is part of that relationship. Built on trust and transparency with everything you're showing them, giving them with costs and line items, you need to show it all. [00:31:00] So I feel like so much keeps getting taken away. It, I, it really bothers me when I'm. I get protective of our clients.

Jessica Sibila: Yeah. You're in a tough spot. You, you are. Um, the, the work that you're trying to do is in service of the brand, of the exhibitor and. Unfortunately the show organizer doesn't see you as the client. They see your client as the client, correct? That's right. That's the person that's choosing the booth, the booth space.

Jessica Sibila: So we do hear, especially from larger brands, that they kind of, um, hire the exhibit house or the experiential marketing teams to do this work for them, and that's helpful. And they also need to take a little bit more active role in communicating to the show organizer because the show organizer really only wants to hear from them, right?[00:32:00] 

Jessica Sibila: They want to hear what the exhibitor needs and what they're thinking. And when it comes from the exhibitor's voice, it is much more powerful with the show organizer than if it comes from the design house. 

Chris Dunn (2): And 

Jessica Sibila: so what we try to do with the exhibitor advocate is support exhibitors in understanding how to speak to their show organizers, how to bring the data, and have it come across in a collaborative and supportive way without it just sounding like a complaint.

Jessica Sibila: Mm-hmm. Um, we advise them on language. They can use letters, they can send, um mm-hmm. Ways to look at the problem where it's not just their problem, but a challenge that all exhibitors or a majority of exhibitors are having on the show floor. That's much more powerful with a show organizer. Absolutely.

Jessica Sibila: That's gonna create change. And so what we are asking our supplier partners, our exhibit house and [00:33:00] experiential marketing agencies to do, is to share the exhibitor advocate with your client. So that they feel more empowered, they feel more comfortable to go and talk with their show organizer. We can do some of it, but just like you, it, it doesn't have the same weight as when it comes directly from in the show.

Jessica Sibila: Organizer's mind the person that's paying the bills. Yeah. 

Dana Esposito: So for people like, like us, like BlueHive and some of our competitors, you know, we have a, you know, with the EDPA, we have like a. We have like a friendly world of competitors, right? We know them. We talk to them. We're friends with so many of them.

Dana Esposito: Yeah. So is there anything that you, you could let us know or anyone else listening, like what is something that they should, like how do they do that? How do, how would we say to some of our clients like, Hey, we want you to know about the exhibitor advocate. We want you to get involved. Like, how do we make that connection?

Dana Esposito: Yeah. Is it beyond just an email? Is there, is there a packet? Is there anything that you could give to us? [00:34:00] To give to them to help them because they, they don't need another thing to do, but this is something so important to help them. 

Jessica Sibila: Yeah. Yeah. We do have that information. We have packets, um, PowerPoint presentations and um, videos and things that you can share with your clients.

Jessica Sibila: So if that's of interest, if you want us to come out and do a presentation with your clients, we'd be more than happy to do that. I think for a lot of exhibitors, they're busy, and so by providing them with a tool and to showcase your partnership to them by providing them with a tool that comes from the exhibitor advocate and can directly help them address a pain point that they're working through right now, that's probably the most powerful connection that you could make.

Jessica Sibila: So I would recommend that you share with them. Uh, one of our tools, become a member yourself first. Um, and then share one of our tools with them. Show them the value that the exhibitor advocate brings to [00:35:00] them. Share a testimonial from one of our exhibitors about why they found membership with the exhibitor advocate valuable, and I think then encouraging them to become a member of our organization so that they are up to date on the issues that are popping up in the industry.

Jessica Sibila: How to address those challenges and how to get ahead of these things with your show organizer to make sure that they don't, um, perpetuate. 

Chris Dunn: Great. You know, um, I, I had a question earlier to just kind of piggyback on this and, and we're going in a, in a great direction. So I want to, I wanna circle back to it, but before I lose the thought entirely, the last couple times we've done exhibitor live, we've done a really great interactive, um, engagement.

Chris Dunn: Activity piece. And it's been, there's been a poll kind of built into it. And really across the board, the, the one thing that we heard from our clients and potential clients was that they're looking [00:36:00] for more creativity. 

Chris Dunn (2): Mm-hmm. 

Chris Dunn: And what we have taken away from this is that the re, and you've as much as said it right, the reduction in the budgets, it's not really the reductions in the budgets, the amount of money that is able to be spent towards.

Chris Dunn: The making your exhibit that much cooler and the messaging and the signage and the graphics and the structure and all that, right? Because, because now we've got this larger portion piece of the pie going towards other things, um, which means there's a smaller portion going towards the exhibit. The exhibits are getting boring, right?

Chris Dunn: There's a million metal frame systems out there. Everything looks like. Each other, it's difficult to differentiate yourself with. Sure. Only graphics, no architectural, you know, statements. And Dana, you're, you're, you know, this, you're handcuffed all the time because the budgets just don't allow us to do things that are create or, or outside the box thinking, because that takes more money.

Chris Dunn: Right? So at the end of the day, I, I love how you shined a light on the fact [00:37:00] that. This by the byproduct of this is just leading to shows that are, that are less impactful. People are bored. Yeah. With it ex the attendees are bored because the exhibitors are showing up with kind of a meh presentation and no one's really standing out.

Chris Dunn: And the, and then the, the shows in general just. They're the ones who kind of suffer, right? So everything is all con so interconnected that it's just, you know, going in this, in this wrong direction. So 

Jessica Sibila: yeah. Point, we talk about this downward spiral, right? Right. We talk about it and it takes years for it to really hit hard, which is why a lot of show organizers don't.

Jessica Sibila: See it as it's happening. Mm-hmm. But what happens is an exhibitor's cost go up and they're not seeing the ROI and so the next year they decide to bring in less equipment. Their booth gets smaller. To your point, the booth is not as interesting and exciting that year. The attendee comes in and says, gosh, I didn't really get to see and touch and feel the [00:38:00] products.

Jessica Sibila: They weren't there. The company was there, but I didn't, I didn't see the staff. I didn't get to touch the product. The booths weren't exciting. I'm not sure that I'll go next year. So now we're into the third year, the attendees drop off again, and now the exhibitors are even more upset at their ROI. And so you can see that this spiral mm-hmm.

Jessica Sibila: That takes a few years to manifest, is really detrimental for a show organizer. 

Dana Esposito: They start saying, well, they, there weren't as many. Exhibits or those exhibits all seem smaller and then the next year it keeps going and then they're like, and then it didn't seem as many people there, like it feeds on itself and the show organize.

Dana Esposito: I goes like, please come to the show. It's great. Mm-hmm. And they don't realize they're slowly suffocating themselves. 

Jessica Sibila: Yeah, and the organizer is focused on two things, primarily the cost of, of booth space, right? Which is driving revenue for them and the the sponsorships that they're getting. And so as those show service costs are going up, those sponsorship dollars are going down, booth revenue is going [00:39:00] down.

Jessica Sibila: This is where bringing data to the organizer to say, look, if you negotiate those show service rates. I have the opportunity to now spend more on my booth making the experience better for the attendee and having a bigger booth. Sometimes I have more budget to put towards sponsorships, which I would like to do.

Jessica Sibila: Mm-hmm. And the show organizer now doesn't have as much of a risk of those exhibitors creating experiences off the show floor. Yeah. And we're seeing a lot of that happening because it's more cost effective. Yeah. So the show organizer has. Every benefit to negotiating those show service rates on behalf of their exhibitors to creating exhibitor advisory councils to listen to their exhibitors and hear what, what the pain points are and how to solve them in a way that benefits both parties.

Jessica Sibila: Yeah, it, it's a collaborative effort. 

Dana Esposito: Yeah. I hate [00:40:00] to lump. Everybody into a bucket. 'cause of course that's not legitimate. But when I think of like show organizers, I, I wish they, and some might, you know, some might disclaimer they do, but I wish that they like that they would. Think of their clients coming to that show and their sponsors, like from, from their point of view, more so like what's their experience?

Dana Esposito: Are we making this too expensive? Are we making this too cumbersome? Are we making this too difficult that they're not going to wanna continue to do it or to do it as well as they could be able to? And like thinking about their experience. Like what are things. Uh, and, and deciding to exhibit or a sponsor, this show that's going to be from that other person's perspective.

Dana Esposito: Memorable. In a good way? Yes. Like what are, what are the perks to it? Other than like, what are those things? I mean, I like Apple's thought of those things, like they want their user experience. To be better, right? So if you thought about, am I gonna go back to a landline? No, [00:41:00] because I'm an now addicted to this wonderful user experience, even though I pay for it, right?

Dana Esposito: Like, what is that user experience? They need to think it from the client's perspective. I'm not saying they should, you know, do things for free or, or, or lose money by any stretch, but I just wish that there was that perspective, you know? Is there a creative on every one of those? Committees. I don't know.

Jessica Sibila: There's a lot of show organizers that are listening to their exhibitors and are, um, and, and you see those numbers reflected in their data post show, right? The, the booth spaces are going up, exhibitor numbers are going up, attendees are going up. So there are those show organizers that are paying attention and doing what they can.

Jessica Sibila: I think a lot of, um, exhibitors have to speak up to their show organizer, and it's not to the sales team, it's to their operations team. If the operations team is not hearing it from the exhibitor, they don't understand how big [00:42:00] of a deal it really is, and so exhibitors have to start speaking up. They have to start.

Jessica Sibila: Raising the red flag, and I think the sales teams sometimes on the show organizer side will hear it and will try to share that information, but sometimes I think they're just as frustrated as the exhibitor because the, the message is not getting through. So what we tell all of our exhibitors is. Find the operations team.

Jessica Sibila: Go to the show management office when you're on site and talk with the operations team. Build a relationship with them. Find out who it is, get a name, get an email address, get a phone number so that you can share your experience with them firsthand in a collaborative, supportive way so they can understand how they can drive solutions that will benefit both parties.

Jessica Sibila: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Dunn: You know, um, point to 

Dana Esposito: find the operation. 'cause otherwise you're just kind of going to someone who's stuck [00:43:00] in the middle. That's right. Right. You know? Yeah. Yeah. That's right. 

Chris Dunn: Absolutely. And you know, we're, we're getting to towards the end of when we need to, to wrap up. But one story that we were talking about, you know, prereq pre uh, launch to live.

Chris Dunn: Um, it was an experience that one of my other sales guys just had recently at a show in Vegas, and they literally, they walked in and the general had already put the pick points in the ceiling for the hanging rig. Everything was done. It was great. Right, which is kind of the same process that had happened over the last couple of years.

Chris Dunn: And then prior to, before they could come in with all of the hanging gear and everything and actually pull stuff up, the, there became a, a, a rift between the GC and the electricians, and it was a territorial battle. And basically the electricians were like, well, this is actually a, it's, it's a, it's a lit sign.

Chris Dunn: There's electric to it, so we're gonna actually take your points and pull them off of the ceiling. Even though they're right, we're gonna take 'em down [00:44:00] because we need to put them back up. So, you know, when you talk about the different cities and the different rules and everything, that is also something that the exhibitor at the end of the day and, and sometimes the exhibit company, we're left holding the bag, we look like idiots because we don't, we don't have the ability to control these costs.

Chris Dunn: But you have infighting between different union groups in a certain venue and nobody's on the same page, and this stuff isn't ironed out ahead of time. It's like, oh my God, this is, it's so frustrating. So even if they don't charge us extra money because there was a mistake made, and they may or may not admit it.

Chris Dunn: It set everything back by a day. We lost the whole day on the setup. So I got labor guys sitting, you know, sitting there 'cause they're already committed to the space. So now I can't use them. I'm eating that money or passing it on to my client. Yep. Time is money and everything, you know, that was supposed to happen during straight time now goes to overtime.

Chris Dunn: And it's just, it's like, it's not only, it's not only the cost, but it's these frustrating things. Yeah. That just [00:45:00] continually seem to happen in the, in those spaces. And granted like. These big shows are super complex. I get it. There's hundreds, maybe thousands of exhibitors and the amount of people that you need to make it all work.

Chris Dunn: And, and we understand that companies make money and they need to make money, and that's fine, but there's gotta be a happy medium. Right. We, we also know that 50% of the people in the industry as a whole, across the board are new. Right? Yeah. There was a huge bloodletting at Covid. People went to retirement, they changed industries.

Chris Dunn: Whatever the case, all of a sudden the event industry comes back. It, it reboots. We're drinking from the fire hose. Like, this is great. Everybody wants to get back, but we're, we don't have the people, so like we as the industry, right? So you start hiring people and stuff and it's, we're still clumsily, bouncing along in, in a way, and when I say we.

Chris Dunn: I, I'm not really saying BlueHive, although we have a lot of new people. It's, it's on the, you know, you go to McCormick and, and they're short on electricians. They don't have enough people. The rigors in, it's everybody, and it's everybody. It's across the board. So, so [00:46:00] that return to normalcy, that hasn't happened either yet.

Chris Dunn: Right. So you got a guy in a, you know, in a cherry picker who's never done this before, but he's getting $800 an hour. Awesome. That's great. I learn on the job, so, 

Jessica Sibila: okay. I, I gotta take issue with that a little bit. So the guy in the cherry picker's not getting $800 an hour? 

Chris Dunn: No. He's not getting that. You're paying, they're 800 an hour.

Chris Dunn: Not getting that. You're right. For 

Jessica Sibila: an 

Chris Dunn: not getting that. He's not, we're just being charged for that. 

Jessica Sibila: Yeah, you're getting charged that he's not making that. And the jury picker 

Chris Dunn: is a big machine. And it has a value. Yeah. 

Jessica Sibila: Yeah. And it costs some money. But the problem is to you, exactly. Your point is that everybody's new.

Jessica Sibila: So the unions, sometimes they're confused by the jurisdiction rules because they change often. And so if you had jurisdiction last week, you might not have jurisdiction today. Never You. Like 

Chris Dunn: week to week. 

Jessica Sibila: Right. And now the exhibitors paying the price for that, 

Chris Dunn: right? 

Jessica Sibila: [00:47:00] Um, you've got show organizers who don't understand that they actually manage.

Jessica Sibila: The, the suppliers that manage the labor and so that they have responsibility to make sure that that's all running smoothly. Um, you have exhibitors who don't understand why there's a delay and why this is happening, and certainly can't justify that to their internal team. Right. 

Chris Dunn (2): Right. 

Jessica Sibila: Um, and you probably have new suppliers on the show floor that didn't realize that they needed to manage the labor in such a way either.

Jessica Sibila: It's not an easy answer. This is an incredibly complex industry. Yeah, and it's a complex problem. Which is why the exhibitor advocate talks about bringing all the parties to the table. Yeah. If the show organizer isn't talking with both the union and their supplier partners, their GCs and whoever else, then they're missing a part of the equation, and so everybody's gotta be at the table.

Jessica Sibila: Otherwise, this happens all the time. Well, it's this guy. Well, that's that guy. It was that union. It was [00:48:00] the show organizer. No, it was the gc. That's not helpful. So we want to see membership in the exhibitor advocate from all of these different parties so we can help bring them together and address these problems holistically and effectively.

Jessica Sibila: And that's only gonna happen when we all come together to talk about it and deal with it. Yeah. 

Chris Dunn: Yeah. Well, I'm so glad we're talking about it here. We're, we're not, we're not solving the problems right now. But I think just knowing that there is an organization that we can go to collectively as an industry, right?

Chris Dunn: All of the clients that we deal with, and the folks who aren't our clients yet, or, or may never be, but there are exhibitors, right? Let's you need a voice, right? But your voice is small unless we can amplify it by working together as a, as a bigger team. So That's right. We're solving 

Jessica Sibila: some of those problems.

Jessica Sibila: We, we've made some successes in Yes. Working with our GC partners, working with show organizers to [00:49:00] drive, uh, solutions for our exhibitor members to get their, to get refunds, to change the rules and regulations that don't make sense. Um, if you wanna hear more about those specific things, we've got lots of information on the exhibitor Advocate website.

Jessica Sibila: No, that's perfect. And we're happy to share those experiences. 

Chris Dunn: Awesome, awesome. Yeah, thank you for clarifying. I was, I was just saying the three of us right now aren't necessarily solving those problems. You guys as a whole are definitely that. So let's clarify that. Um, alright, so listen, uh. The event Marketers Toolbox usually tries to come in around 40, 45 minutes.

Chris Dunn: This is such a great conversation. We are already about 50, uh, 50 minutes in, but we also, we always want to end with kind of just like these three questions. So Dana, why don't you, you know, kind of start wrapping us up here. 

Dana Esposito: Sure. All right. So Jessica, so what are the three things that event professionals should be thinking about to better support exhibitors and close the experience gap?

Jessica Sibila: Four exhibitors. You need to [00:50:00] speak up to your show organizer and specifically to the operations team, bring the data, share your experience, and do it in a collaborative way. That is the most effective way to make change in our industry. For both exhibitors and for show organizers. Create an exhibitor advisory council.

Jessica Sibila: Meet several times a year. Learn about what the pain points are from each other and collaborate on solutions. That is the number one benefit, uh, that you can create to, uh, communicate well with each other and find those solutions. And then finally. Regardless of what part of the industry you come from, become a member of the exhibitor advocate.

Jessica Sibila: It's free, and you get a ton of education and resources and tools that will help you navigate challenges both on the show floor and in [00:51:00] communicating with different parties in the industry. Excellent. 

Chris Dunn: So can I just clarify a little bit, so if we, anybody can become a member and it's free, what is, how is, that's, is your, how does your business model work?

Chris Dunn: Like, there are paid, there are paid memberships that just give more, uh, more benefit or, or more in return. Right. 

Jessica Sibila: Yes. Yeah, that's right. If you want, um, access to all of our resources and all of our research, we have an individual educational access membership for 2 99 a year, and then we have a company educational access membership for 1200 a year.

Jessica Sibila: You get five seats with that company access, but membership is always free because we want to make sure that you're always hearing about what's happening in the industry. So you'll get some. Education and some resources available to you. You'll always be, uh, with your finger on the pulse of what's happening.

Jessica Sibila: And if you want more, then we've got the resources that, [00:52:00] uh, will hopefully benefit you and the tools that will benefit you for a very nominal fee. 

Chris Dunn: Yeah. Short money for, for a lot of return. And again, you know, just, uh, it takes a village, right? We gotta, we gotta work together to, to a raising tide raises all boats, as it were.

Chris Dunn: Right? So I think the, the work that's being done in, in one industry, hopefully, is something that kind of like catches on across different vertical markets and in different marketplaces. And, uh, it's, it's the, the more successful exhibitors are, the more successful the shows are. The happier the attendees are, like you said.

Chris Dunn: Mm-hmm. What's making this a a downward spiral effect can reverse and go upward. Absolutely. Absolutely. It can go in the other direction. 

Dana Esposito: And Jessica, I really appreciate what you and the exhibit Advocate are doing, um, and raising the voice for so many, um, people in the industry. Um, and I also really appreciate any of.

Dana Esposito: Any of the clients on the client side who understand that their voice has power and every little [00:53:00] ripple they make in that pond has a big effect down the road. So I know, you know, trade show event managers and marketers are chaos managers. They got plenty going on. Um, but any of them that do take that time to reach out to, to you, to the exhibit advocate and also to the, the.

Dana Esposito: The show organizers, the higher ups, they may make a big difference for not just their own company, but for the whole show, which then ripples effect to the whole industry. So I appreciate them when, when they're willing to speak up and take that time as well. 

Jessica Sibila: Yeah, it's worth it. It's a small amount of time with a huge return.

Jessica Sibila: So, you know, by becoming a member and spending a little bit of time speaking up to your organizer, you will see a massive benefit from both of those things. 

Chris Dunn: Awesome. Yeah, that's a great, uh, point to kind of put a bow on it and, and wrap up the, uh, this particular episode of the Event Marketers Toolbox.

Chris Dunn: Jessica, thank you so much for joining us. This has been great information. Um, what is the best way for people to reach out and either contact you directly or your organization? [00:54:00] 

Jessica Sibila: We would love for you to get onto, um, exhibitor advocacy.com and become a member. Again, it's free. Uh, we'll make sure that you're up to date on all the information, and then you can hit me up on LinkedIn, uh, either myself or the exhibitor advocate.

Jessica Sibila: Uh, we're on LinkedIn and, uh, we would love to hear from you. We'd love to hear what your pain points are and what you need and how we can best support you with the right tools and information. That will make exhibiting an enjoyable experience. 

Dana Esposito: And you've also, um, along with reaching out directly those ways, some of the, some of the audience who may be people work going to exhibitor live or work on their CTSM, we've seen that the Exhibit Advocate has had a space there.

Dana Esposito: Yes. And, um, are there any other spots out there in the world that they might run into? 

Jessica Sibila: Yeah, so we teach A-C-T-S-M or a couple CTSM courses. Um, sorry, not, they're not CTSM courses. They're held in conjunction with CTSM. Um, and then we [00:55:00] also hold, uh, an exhibitor relations course, uh, for CEM, which is the show organizer side with IAEE.

Jessica Sibila: So, nice, uh, trying to address the challenge on both sides of the coin. Uh, we're teaching at both of those, uh, association and industry groups, and then we speak all the time at different associations or events that are happening around the industry to make sure that we're constantly sharing the current perspective, the unbiased, uh, uh, view of exhibitors, um, making sure that the industry understands exactly how exhibitors are feeling.

Jessica Sibila: Excellent. Great. 

Chris Dunn: It's difficult to find unbiased information these days, so we appreciate you bringing that to the table. 

Jessica Sibila: It's, we have no ulterior motive other than to share the exhibitor's point of view. So the data that you get from us is incredibly unbiased. It is straight from the exhibitor, by the exhibitor, so it's important that we continue to, to share that [00:56:00] information with the different industry stakeholders.

Chris Dunn: Awesome. Jessica, this has been fantastic. Thank you. You officially the, the longest episode here, number 21. Uh, this is, we know I talked a lot and I feel like we could have talked for like three more hours for sure. 

Chris Dunn (2): Thank you very 

Chris Dunn: much. We really appreciate, um, your time here for sharing what you've. You've brought to the table and anybody out there who has found this interesting, um, this, uh, this live show will instantly become available at the same link.

Chris Dunn: You can watch it again, share it with friends. Um, we're also on the Blue Hive, uh, YouTube channel. And this also will become, um, or put out as a podcast, uh, on your favorite podcast platform within a day or so. So lots of different ways for you to enjoy and share and learn from the event marketers toolbox.

Chris Dunn: Uh, we appreciate your time and effort and, and as always, um, thanks for coming and, uh, happy, uh, exhibiting, happy eventing, um, go out there, do great things for your clients. [00:57:00] Um, and, uh, and, and, and advocate. Advocate for yourself. That's. Alright. Thanks very much guys. Take care. Have a great day. Thank 

Jessica Sibila: you so much.

Jessica Sibila: Thanks for having me. See everybody.