Event Marketer's Toolbox
Each episode, host Chris Dunn teams up with a leading event professional to explore the tools, tactics, and trends that drive real results.
Event Marketer’s Toolbox is the definitive playbook for corporate event professionals and trade show marketers.
From first-time marketers to seasoned planners, this show delivers practical solutions to make your events memorable and impactful.
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Event Marketer's Toolbox
EMT #29 with Evan Babins - Maximizing Vendor Networks for Unbelievable Events
In this episode of Event Marketer’s Toolbox, Chris Dunn and Brendon Hamlin are joined by Evan Babins, an event professional with a diverse background spanning AV production, hospitality, and corporate event planning. Evan shares his expertise on how to leverage vendor networks for producing high-impact events.
- Building long-term vendor relationships
- How to communicate effectively with vendors
- The difference between a vendor and a partner
- Practical strategies for managing expectations and maximizing collaboration
Evan emphasizes that event success isn’t just about what happens on-site - it’s about cultivating the right relationships with the right partners.
🔹 Vendor Relationships are Key to Success:
Evan explains how trust and communication with vendors are crucial to event success. Curating a network of reliable vendors ensures smooth event execution and exceptional results.
🔹 Partnership vs. Vendor Relationship:
A vendor fulfills their role; a partner goes beyond to support the event’s success. Building long-term partnerships ensures vendors are invested in your vision and willing to adapt to challenges.
🔹 Effective Communication is Essential:
Communication isn’t just about relaying information - it’s about proactive collaboration. Setting clear expectations with your vendors before, during, and after the event helps prevent issues.
🔹 Managing Expectations for Smooth Execution:
Managing vendor expectations and creating open channels of communication leads to smoother event execution. Providing necessary resources (e.g., downtime, meals) helps ensure your team delivers the best results.
Vendor networks are more than just a list of suppliers - they’re an essential part of delivering exceptional events. Evan Babins shares his expertise on how to build trust, collaborate effectively, and create long-lasting relationships with vendors, ensuring smoother event execution and a more successful outcome.
👉🏼 Join us for more insightful discussions like this by tuning into 'Event Marketer's Toolbox,' where industry leaders share the tools, tactics, and trends driving success in the event world.
This Show is sponsored by Blue Hive
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0:00:00
(Chris Dunn)
Hello and welcome to the Event Marketers Toolbox. I am Chris Dunn. I'm with Bluehive Exhibits and Bonjour de Montréal. So I'm up in Canada. Evan, you're also in Canada over in Toronto. I'm up here for a show and took a break from the setup, slid back to my hotel and super happy to be chatting away with a couple of friends here. A guest host who has joined us a number of times. I'm gonna kick it over to my friend, Brendon. Brendon, tell us a little bit about yourself.
0:00:33
(Brendon Hamlin)
Hey, Chris, I'm not in Canada, I'm just in North Carolina. So how y'all doing, I guess is what we would say.
0:00:40
(Chris Dunn)
There you go.
0:00:41
(Brendon Hamlin)
Yeah, happy to be here. Thanks for having me back again. I'm, I'm Brendon Hamlin. I run Hamlin Creative. We're a video and photo production company. And we work a lot in the event space. So we work a lot with trade show partners and activation folks, agencies,
0:00:57
(Brendon Hamlin)
creating content in those live event spaces. So it's really a pleasure to be here and participate here.
0:01:04
(Brendon Hamlin)
And we're excited to have our good friend, Evan Babbins here with us. spaces. So it's really a pleasure to be here and participate here.
0:01:09
(Brendon Hamlin)
And we're excited to have our good friend, Evan Babbins here with us. Hi, Evan, how you doing today?
0:01:11
(Evan Babins)
Good. How's it going?
0:01:13
(Brendon Hamlin)
It's great. Tell us, tell us a little bit about your background.
0:01:17
(Evan Babins)
Yeah. So I've been in the events world for the past 12 or 13 years now. I've really been fortunate to do a lot of things in the industry. I started off in DJing and AV production. I then moved into hospitality, so running the venues, operations and event management side of the venues perspective. I then went to corporate event agencies and worked around the world working on on some great, great brands
0:01:46
(Evan Babins)
globally. And then since about 2019 or so, I've been back and forth between the agency side and in-house planning, working on events for the majority have been automotive, financial services and pharmaceutical clients.
0:02:06
(Chris Dunn)
Cool. And Evan, you recently, or maybe not that recently, but you're back on the brand side for, is it ScotiaBank?
0:02:13
(Evan Babins)
Yes, I'm at ScotiaBank now. So I'm part of Lighthouse Studios, which is an internal agency within Scotia's global marketing, where we work on internally and externally facing events across the bank.
0:02:28
(Speaker 12)
Awesome.
0:02:29
(Chris Dunn)
Awesome. Great. Well, I think we've got a great subject for discussion today with regards to like, you know, vendors, how to partner best and get the maximum out of those relationships, how to pick them, all those things. So it'd be kind of interesting because, you know, my company Blue Hives, a little over a hundred people,
0:02:46
(Chris Dunn)
Brendon, on your side, you run a small lean team and you rely on a lot of partners to get things done. So this will be a really interesting idea that we can, you know, a couple of small guys can talk to, somebody representing a very large brand and how that tends to work out.
0:03:04
(Chris Dunn)
Before we dive in to the meat and potatoes of the conversation, just a real quick word on our sponsors. We have two sponsors. The first is my company, Blue Hive Exhibits. We are in the primarily trade show exhibit and event space. We do a lot of corporate events, but really
0:03:21
(Chris Dunn)
the bulk of our work is on the trade show floor. We are a group. We feel like we're kind of right sized for a lot of different brands that are out there. We're not a tiny little boutique and we're not the big guys where you're just a number. We're great on the creative side, on the customer service side and really delivering a quality product with an enjoyable engagement process. And then in addition to that, we are
0:03:52
(Chris Dunn)
partnered with a company called Fist Bump. Fist Bump is an agency that actually they're running the podcast right now. I originally bumped into Brandon Lee, the founder, a couple of years ago. I was bumped into Brandon Lee, the founder, a couple of years ago. I was doing some training with him. He kind of brought the idea of the podcast as
0:04:11
(Chris Dunn)
a media channel to my attention, and they've been fantastic to work with. So right now, you may notice that we're having a little tech glitchy stuff going on with some of our video and audio matching up, but that's just something that we work through. But behind the scenes, we've got a great producer, Juana, who's helping out, and they handle all the heavy lift.
0:04:32
(Chris Dunn)
They make it really easy for anybody to have a show to create this content, something that's near and dear to both Evan and Brendon on that end. And at the same time, just keep things moving forward. We're already at episode number 29.
0:04:48
(Chris Dunn)
I can't believe it. We've been doing this for more than a half a year and it's been super, a super experience. And we're really reaching a lot of folks out there. We're doing our best to build a community of like-minded event people who can lean on each other,
0:05:05
(Chris Dunn)
who can learn from each other and keep everything moving forward, right? We're all rowing in the same direction. So hey to Carter out there, welcome aboard. He was a guest a couple of weeks ago and we always love when guests show up in the comments.
0:05:17
(Chris Dunn)
So feel free to weigh in with some comments. We'll do our best to get him to everybody's questions. All right, so I've been babbling quite a bit here. I'm going to kick it back to Brendon, and he's going to start us off with really grilling Evan and holding the feet to the fire.
0:05:33
(Brendon Hamlin)
Yeah, so Evan, it's really great to, again, to have you here today and learn more about your experience. I think what's really interesting is that coming out of a venue space, you know, you said hotels and venues, vendor management and a vendor network is so critical. You're not doing it all
0:05:55
(Brendon Hamlin)
yourself, you need help. And so how do you build that? We'll talk about the importance of how you build that vendor network and why it's so important
0:06:06
(Evan Babins)
yeah, so building your vendor network is really the one of the most essential pieces of Producing great events. I really like to use sort of a football analogy to describe this So as the event producer, you're almost like the quarterback on the line, right? And you're calling the plays you're calling the right? And you're calling the plays, you're calling the audibles, you're putting the plays in place, you're listening kind of the coach,
0:06:29
(Evan Babins)
so what the coach is telling you, and then it's your job to really get the team on the line, in position to get that field goal, to get that win, to get that touchdown, right? And so when you translate that to how we work with partners and with vendors, you're sort of curating your database,
0:06:46
(Evan Babins)
you're curating your network, you're looking at who do I need to get the job done well with properly, who's gonna give me the best value for the event based on the quality of their work, the pricing that we're getting,
0:07:00
(Evan Babins)
all these different features that you look for when you look for partners and vendors. But it's all about building out that network of trusted people and companies who you like to work with, who you get along with, who you want to sort of emulate the way that you're working. Because at the end of the day, you want everyone who's like minded, working on that project with you to be in that sort of work group to bring those events to life.
0:07:28
(Brendon Hamlin)
I love that analogy. I think that, you know, the word producer, I'm a producer, you're a producer, it's hard to define sometimes, but it really is that person that's orchestrating so many different things simultaneously.
0:07:42
(Brendon Hamlin)
And some of those could be, you know, people that are your colleagues on your staff, and other could be, you know, outside companies that you're that you're really pulling in. How do the so how do the vendor side of it really play that role in shaping a successful event? So how do you get all those partners coming in
0:08:02
(Brendon Hamlin)
to really say, we're in it with you, like we're gonna do our best for you?
0:08:09
(Evan Babins)
Yeah, I think it's about, like Connor said before, I think it's about bringing the right people to the table. So if you're doing, you know, let's say you're doing a virtual webinar. So you need, you know, broadcast team, you need great camera crew,
0:08:23
(Evan Babins)
you need great motion graphics to get your graphics that you need to the right level. And it's all about, you know, how you can leverage the people who know what they're doing the best. So you're getting the best people at their job all in the same space to execute on that vision. So as the producers, the event producer, you know, it's our role to basically use our superpower,
0:08:48
(Evan Babins)
which is finding and curating all the best people for the job. And then you have to trust that your vendors will then do their part and deliver what you're asking of them, doing as they are the best in the game.
0:09:06
(Chris Dunn)
If I could jump in just with a question, something that we see on our end, not every company that we work with comes to the table with an agency in tow. Some do, certainly on the pharma side, they do. And sometimes there's multiple agencies involved.
0:09:22
(Chris Dunn)
In all honesty, sometimes there's a bit of a rub or a bit of friction that could exist between an agency and a group like ours. And it can be challenging. And I think that there's these gray areas, right, where the companies potentially overlap, and we do a little bit of the same stuff. But at the end of the day, you know, what we always try to do is say, listen, yes, we are agency like, but this is your game, right? Like you guys are here.
0:09:50
(Chris Dunn)
We're going to step back everywhere that we're not needed. You don't need to worry about us pilfering or taking a client or anything of that nature. Like we're just here to help let us know, you know, where, where you guys, you know, kind of want to end and where we need to pick up. And I think when we think about those, you know, you're managing the vendor network, right, with under your umbrella,
0:10:10
(Chris Dunn)
but then you've got the vendors who need to play nice in the sandbox together. And I think having, you know, as somebody who serves as a vendor to a lot of bigger brands, we need to figure out like what's our place and what do they expect us and making sure that we're having those honest and transparent conversations up ahead, I'm sorry, up front so that so that everybody on both sides is comfortable with the situation.
0:10:32
(Chris Dunn)
They don't need to be like, oh, we don't want to expose this information to Blue Eye because they might do something with it.
0:10:37
(Speaker 16)
Right.
0:10:37
(Chris Dunn)
So I think that's probably something that's maybe not visible to you as the producer overhead, but, you know, making sure that the vendors are playing nice together and working well also. You've probably seen things go really well and maybe things that needed to have an adult step
0:10:55
(Evan Babins)
into the room and have a conversation in the past. Yeah, I think that's actually, just to your point quickly, I think that's actually a really great point that like as the event producer, we're not always privy to what's going on behind the scenes on the vendor level. Like what's going on behind the scenes,
0:11:12
(Evan Babins)
like at your offices and like with your teams and stuff. But at the end of the day, as long as what we're seeing on the surface is what we're expecting and what the client is expecting, like I think as the event producer like you're finding those people who you know and you've worked with and you've worked together with for many years. And so what they bring to the table you hope is you know that ability to work well with others that they're not going to like you know Brandon's not going to take something that you're doing, Chris, and vice versa. And like, you know, you, you trust, you know, in 2025 that vendors are
0:11:48
(Evan Babins)
staying in their own lane, but also have the ability to jump in when necessary to help cover off other people.
0:11:55
(Evan Babins)
Right.
0:11:56
(Evan Babins)
And so I think that's a really important skill as a producer, as an event producer, to be able to find those vendors who balance and know how to balance that, this is my lane conversation versus let me do what's necessary to make sure the event goes successful. So like, you know, for example, like Chris,
0:12:16
(Evan Babins)
like you're on the EV side of things, like if, you know, Brendon like has a, or the video team needs like, you know, an extra power cable or like an XLR is missing from the mic on the camera to the soundboard. Like, you're not going to be like, no, like I'm hands off. Like I'm not doing that when like, you very well
0:12:33
(Evan Babins)
know how to do that. And like, you very well are aware that you know what needs to be done to make that happen. Like if that's the best, like if that's what needs to be done for the event to be successful, like you're going to jump in and do it. But like there are definitely people and vendors who will back up and say, that's not my lane. That's not my piece. That's not my thing.
0:12:53
(Evan Babins)
Figure it out on your own. And unfortunately, sometimes we get burned by those vendors. And that's kind of how you learn who you want to work with and who you like working with. And unfortunately, who you don't like working with.
0:13:05
(Chris Dunn)
Yeah, that's a good point. You know, just as an interesting analogy, I'm up here in Montreal. It's a very small show that we're doing. There's maybe 30 exhibitors or something like that. And the other exhibitors are represented by companies who do what I do, right? So there's competition there setting up the booth for their brands. It's really interesting. When you peel away the laundry, right,
0:13:29
(Chris Dunn)
the color brand that I'm wearing, the group that's on the show floor, it doesn't really matter who you're working for. They all help each other. Right tools are being borrowed between the groups on site. Oh, crap. Yeah, I need a VGA cable. I you know, my ethernet, younet, I snapped the head off the ethernet cable, whatever it is, right?
0:13:49
(Chris Dunn)
People are in that realm who are building booths, whether always be in the same city or they're traveling around. There's a lot of cohesion. It doesn't always happen, but for the most part, I've seen a lot of really heartwarming stuff
0:14:03
(Chris Dunn)
where people are just willing to help out, even though we're competitors. Cause at the end of the day, I think there's, there is this kind of, um, you know, attitude that people are just like, we're here to get the job done and make sure the show goes off and goes well.
0:14:15
(Speaker 14)
Right.
0:14:16
(Chris Dunn)
So what do we need to do?
0:14:17
(Evan Babins)
We have a lane, but if I want to get into this conversation because it's like not this conversation, but like, you know, I think there was a massive shift that happened after COVID that the industry as a whole went from a competitive based industry. To a cohesive based industry. And we had a lot of people that were previously of the mindset of like, I'm only doing what's in this box and here's my four pieces to like, what do I need to do as a partner to make sure the event goes smoothly?
0:14:53
(Evan Babins)
And that's, and if that means coming outside of my lane and outside of my box, it's been way more cooperative of an industry since COVID because we've saw, we saw what happened where nobody had anything. And so now that we're back and things are great and we're all back to normal, everyone in my world at least and the people that I work with and I want to work with have had a definite mentality shift from a competitive-based industry to a cooperative based industry.
0:15:26
(Evan Babins)
And I don't know if you guys are feeling the same way in your worlds too.
0:15:30
(Chris Dunn)
Yeah, a hundred percent. And, and I'm glad you brought that up because it is, it's we, we, and it happened because we saw that everything on the, when there is no work, it sucks for everybody across the board. So what do we do to try to, you know, a rising tide raises all boats. Yes, we're gonna experience a lift from this,
0:15:49
(Chris Dunn)
but so will other people across the board. And that's a good thing. It's a good thing for the industry everywhere. Brendon, I gotta warn you, there's a woman with the same last name as you is checking in from somewhere in Georgia.
0:16:00
(Speaker 6)
What?
0:16:01
(Evan Babins)
And she's offering up you as a V help.
0:16:07
(Brendon Hamlin)
Well, that's my agent.
0:16:14
(Evan Babins)
Fantastic. Well, what's, what's interesting. So yeah, that's my wife. Uh,
0:16:24
(Evan Babins)
So what's interesting is she is jealous of what you're doing currently, not the other way around.
0:16:28
(Brendon Hamlin)
But what she says is true. So many times, you know, we are not an AV company, we are a production company that's capturing content inside, you know, events. And so what
0:16:40
(Brendon Hamlin)
happens a lot of times, though, is we can we are what I like to call us AV whisperers. And so we're able to help the client, you know, talk to the AV group and say, okay, this is what needs to happen. And it just, it's like a great, like translation, like they don't have to talk directly to the AV folks.
0:17:00
(Brendon Hamlin)
We can talk to the AV folks and make sure that it happens the right way. So it is a little bit of an added value thing that we throw in when we get into a conference or something like that, where there's stuff on the, on screens and we want to make sure, because a lot of times we've created that stuff too. So we have a vested interest to make sure that it looks great.
0:17:17
(Speaker 14)
Right.
0:17:18
(Brendon Hamlin)
But yeah, so she, but she's also commenting.
0:17:24
(Chris Dunn)
I love having her here. She's she's always she's, she's one of our best and most loyal listeners. Yeah, yeah, we'll have to have her on the podcast someday. Absolutely, absolutely. All right. So we're going to pivot ever so slightly, although we've already kind of talked about it. So, so building trust and collaborating effectively with
0:17:43
(Chris Dunn)
vendors, right? This is obviously a strategy to this. And I think if you've been around for a while, you just kind of know the type of people that you kind of get along with. But can you, Evan, kind of just maybe dial in or, or roll out the playbook that you've got on like, what are you looking at for strategies to create kind of those long-term relationships. How does that play out? What are you looking for for character traits
0:18:07
(Evan Babins)
and skill sets in those potential partners or vendors? Yeah, I always tell, I think it's a great conversation. I love having this piece of it. And really what it comes down for me is two pieces. There's the pre-event piece, and then there's the during and the post-event piece.
0:18:22
(Evan Babins)
And for me, working with great vendors and working with great partners, and there is a difference between those two terminologies, which we'll get to in a couple of minutes, but working with great partners, it's almost more important for like, once the contract is signed up until show day, how you get from one from a to B, that's often more important than what happens actually on on site and post. Because at the end of the day, and I hate to do it, and I hate
0:18:54
(Evan Babins)
to sort of bring the industry down to the same. But like, if I have a video crew, a and video crew B, and they both have the same cameras, and they both have the same output levels on their cameras, I'm going to get the same cameras and they both have the same output levels on their cameras. I'm going to get the same content. I'm going to get the same creative.
0:19:08
(Evan Babins)
I'm going to get the same aspects. What's different. And what the biggest selling feature for me is how we got to that show. So like, what was the communication like? Like, was the, the partner that you're working with, were they able to answer your email in a relatively, you know, reasonable timeframe? Did you have to wait 10 days to get an answer back
0:19:27
(Evan Babins)
on a question you asked in an email? Like those are the pieces that I look for when I'm building out my vendor network. It's like, who is getting back to you? Who is getting back to you with relevant information that helps you move the needle forward?
0:19:41
(Evan Babins)
Like if someone is not doing all of those things, maybe they're not the people to work with. Right. So that's that pre event piece. That's super important and is like critical to the process. And then with the onsite piece, which is, which is, you know, I would say like, if it's not the number one thing, it's like one B, right. So it's like, how are they showing up on site? Are they professional? Are they like, if you tell them, like, if you're doing like a photo and video team, like, are they wearing all black? Are they blending into the background?
0:20:11
(Evan Babins)
Are they wearing, you know, a hot pink outfit that like makes them the star of the show where like, they're not the star of the show, right? Like when they're on site, are they like talking to you know clients? Are they not talking to clients? Have you given them the ability to do so so like how are they actually showing up on site? How are they acting on site? What's their sort of demeanor and like are they professional? They're not professional They're leaving a giant mess of cables that front of house when you're trying to do a simple patch in like all of these pieces tell you a lot about the vendors that you're working with. And unfortunately,
0:20:47
(Evan Babins)
sometimes they tell you who you're not going to work with again after that show is done.
0:20:54
(Chris Dunn)
Yeah, you brought up a bunch of interesting stuff there. If I could, if I just, we all have vendors that we choose, right, we partner with people, we're choosing vendors. And your point about getting back to people quickly with an email answer, it's so easy. It's table, should be table stakes,
0:21:15
(Chris Dunn)
but it doesn't happen automatically. And I can think of a very specific situation where one of the AV partners that we have, they do a fine job on site, but they're horrible at the communication and getting back to us with numbers. So you know what, when it comes to like, who are we going to put this bid out to, the account
0:21:34
(Chris Dunn)
managers who kind of run that process are like, I'm going to deal with these guys over here because I get a quick answer. I don't want to wait five days for the other people. So even if your execution is great and your pricing is well in line or even a little bit more friendly, if you're not doing the stuff on the front end, it's simple, you're not going to get those opportunities. So that's a huge thing for anybody who's out there just listening. And if you're on bids and you're
0:21:58
(Chris Dunn)
trying to get work, think about doing the little stuff well, and then opportunities will continue to come. And I just kind of want to want to pivot off of that and say, you know, Evan, you as a larger brand, and not just now, but also in your in your past lives and so forth, you're responsible for choosing partners, for choosing vendors. And hopefully in your answer, you can also help delineate what your thoughts are on a partner versus a vendor. But like Brendon and I are answering RFPs, or we're throwing our hat in the ring for opportunities.
0:22:38
(Chris Dunn)
Is there any kind of insight that you can give to smaller groups who are going after larger clients as to like, how do we show up? How do we, how do we put our best foot forward so that we are in position to be chosen for an opportunity?
0:22:55
(Evan Babins)
Yeah, so let's define first what a vendor is and what a partner is. And so for me, I would say a vendor is a company who gets hired for a one time event that there's no longevity, there's no relationship, there's no, it's just like, maybe you're like the in house, you know, exclusive provider of x type of vendor, like if it's a catering company, if it's encore, AV, if it's, you
0:23:24
(Evan Babins)
know, whatever it is, like you're like venue exclusive that you have to choose them to work at that venue. They are simply a vendor who's working on that show for you. A partner is someone in a company who you have a relationship with. Maybe you've done multiple shows with them. You know them.
0:23:43
(Evan Babins)
They're not just someone who's coming to work on a show with you, but they're someone who's there along the ride, whether it's part of your career. If you brought them from company, company like I have a couple of, you know, partners who I brought with me within the last multiple companies that I've worked for because I have a personal relationship with these companies that I have then created into business relationships at the different companies I've worked for because I have a personal relationship with these companies that I have then created into business relationships at the different companies I've worked for.
0:24:09
(Evan Babins)
So that to me is the partnership and that to me is a partner and the sort of to, to, to dumb it down and to make it as simple as possible. If you need something fixed in at two o'clock in the morning, the night before the show starts, the partner will be there to move mountains and will help you.
0:24:29
(Evan Babins)
The vendor will say, sorry, we're closed. Come back to us at 9 a.m. on Monday. And that's the difference. So that to me is like how we define between vendors and partners. And then sort of-
0:24:39
(Chris Dunn)
Evan, can I just interrupt before you go? Because we've got a question here that I think fits in really well. And it looks like LinkedIn user, but I understand this is from Bill L. So what he asks or puts forth is, so we were talking about stand in your lane versus being willing to do what it takes.
0:24:59
(Chris Dunn)
So except on the client side, at least in his experience, clients potentially have become a little bit more delineated and keeping vendors versus partners. So I'm not sure exactly what Bill was, where he was going with this, but from your standpoint, keeping people not, not letting them be close and become a partner and always just kind of dealing
0:25:22
(Chris Dunn)
with people on a transactional basis. That's kind of what I'm reading into it. It's like, I don't really want to partner. I don't want to lock in with anybody. I want to hire somebody, have a set of expectation that you're here for this just one job, get it done, do your best, and then I'm going to move on. I'm curious. we can probably read into the question a few different ways, but thought process on your end, I want to partner.
0:25:46
(Chris Dunn)
We want to be partners with our clients and we want to partner with other people. Like, so to me, this doesn't make a lot of sense, but I can see where some people might operate in that realm.
0:25:58
(Evan Babins)
Yeah, and I think sort of from my perspective, I think the goal is always to find partners. And the goal is always, you know, when you're building your network and you're building your vendor team, you know, like I mentioned off the top, like that, that football analogy, like if, if I've got people on
0:26:13
(Evan Babins)
the line who are partners, I know, as the quarterback that they're going to have my back, and I'm going to have their back, right? If they're just if they're just a vendor because they're the you know the required vendor to use for AV Let's say at the venue and you don't have an option or they're the rigging and power supplier and you have to use them I'm not gonna
0:26:36
(Evan Babins)
go out of my way to Have that more than a transactional scenario for that perspective. Because I know it's not going to be anything more than they're the people that are plugging in the power distro to the wall. And like, or they're the people that are running your, how your lines for your hardwire internet,
0:26:58
(Evan Babins)
like there's no benefit to me there. But like if I can curate all my other partners that are actual true partners, that's where my that's where my energy will go. That's where my mindset will go. That's where the majority of my time will go is working with those people who I know have a vested interest in me and my client and in the
0:27:21
(Speaker 13)
event.
0:27:23
(Chris Dunn)
Yeah, spot on. That's excellent. All right, I kind of pushed you in a slightly different direction, but let's circle back to where you were going.
0:27:32
(Evan Babins)
Yeah, so then for like smaller companies, so I've been the last, so this company or the company before was also another large brand in the tech world. So I think when it comes to like smaller companies trying to break into working for large organizations,
0:27:50
(Evan Babins)
large corporations, and I literally had a meeting with somebody an hour ago about this, like right before we sort of jumped on and we sort of did our tech checks and everything else. And it was a promotional swag company who I was talking to. And they were like, you know, how do we get in?
0:28:06
(Evan Babins)
And, and, you know, I, I have a personal relationship with the company. Um, I don't have, I haven't brought them into, to where I am now yet, but they're trying to get in and what do we do and how do we get there? And the best thing I told him was like, listen, we have a roster of partners who we work for and we work with right now for our swag and gifting. That's not going to change in the short term.
0:28:30
(Evan Babins)
Eventually it will change. Eventually we will add, we will remove. You know, one of the companies we work with now we're having a bit of an issue with. So I was like, listen, the best thing you could do now is I will let you know when I have RFPs, you should respond to those RFPs, knowing that you probably won't get the business because we can't give people business without, you know, having them on board and MSAs and everything else that has
0:28:54
(Evan Babins)
to be done. But if I can learn the process that you use and we can start figuring out how we work well together, once it's time to flip that switch and once we're ready to onboard you as a new vendor, we're not going to have to deal with the bullshit of like, how do I work? How do you work? What's the communications? Everything we talked about earlier about that pre event relationship stuff that you have to figure out.
0:29:23
(Evan Babins)
So and I was like, listen, you can take me up on that. And you can also say no, and I will respect both of your answers. If you don't want to put in the work, knowing you're not going to get the business until we're like onboarded and signed and whatever else.
0:29:39
(Evan Babins)
And he was like, no, like I'm like so down for that. And I'm so down to just to get stuff in front of you. So you can see how we work and you can see how we display things and how we do our pitch decks and everything else. And that's a huge win because then once we get to that point
0:29:57
(Evan Babins)
that we're ready, we don't have any of that learning curve to get through and we can just start rolling. So it's like responding to RFP is knowing you may or may not get the work. It's putting yourself out on the line, finding contacts at companies who you want to work with. Like it's very true in the same scenario, like when you're job hunting,
0:30:17
(Evan Babins)
when you're looking for a new job, like I always took the mindset of like, what companies do I wanna work for? Find people within that company to try to get an in it, an in with, so that you're not just blasting out a resume into a black hole. And it's the same thing from becoming, from moving from a vendor to becoming a partner.
0:30:38
(Evan Babins)
It's like, find the companies you wanna work with, find people inside those companies who you think will be the right people to talk to, like event team or like, you know, find, you know, on a lower scale, you know, onboarding teams or procurement teams who you're gonna need to deal with,
0:30:57
(Evan Babins)
find your in, and then once you're in, you can sort of carve your path in that company once you have that in.
0:31:07
(Chris Dunn)
That those are some awesome recommendations on how to get in the door. And as a salesperson, right, that's what we do. We're banging, banging on doors and and rarely is the answer yes, but sometimes the answer is like, No, however, like, give it some time and we'd like to see how you work first. So I think that's a great message to groups out there
0:31:29
(Chris Dunn)
who are trying to get their foot in the door with a bigger organization or partner with different groups. It's like, just because it doesn't work on that first event like gotta be willing to do the work, to have the conversations and to lay the groundwork so that you're gonna see some opportunities
0:31:45
(Chris Dunn)
in the coming up in the near future.
0:31:50
(Speaker 12)
Awesome.
0:31:51
(Chris Dunn)
All right, Brendon, back to you, my friend.
0:31:54
(Brendon Hamlin)
Yeah, so I'm curious as you have built your network and in that network you have vendors and in that network you have partners and in that network you have partners, but how do you manage that network so that, I mean, ultimately we'd love for everybody to be a partner and be vested in 100% in and looking out
0:32:13
(Brendon Hamlin)
for our best interest. And we know that's not always gonna happen, but how do you manage that network to a point where, you know, you could convert some of those people from just the transactional vendor relationship into something maybe a little more substantive
0:32:27
(Brendon Hamlin)
and more like a partner.
0:32:29
(Evan Babins)
I think so. Yeah, it's a great question. I think it definitely takes some finessing, you know, and you need to really be able to, and it's hard with some of these vendors who are like exclusive to venues.
0:32:42
(Evan Babins)
Like, and I always, I hate to pick on encore more more and more But like it's just like the easiest one to pick on
0:32:49
(Speaker 11)
like
0:32:51
(Evan Babins)
Everywhere and they're so transactional and I just like and I don't want I don't want anyone to think like that That's listening or watching that like I have beef with encore because like I think I have the same beef that everybody has with encore Nothing different. Nothing more, nothing less. But, and I have contacts there and I've had people that I've known for many years that work at Encore that have come in and out and whatever. But I think when a company is like, let's go back to the rigging and power example that I gave earlier.
0:33:21
(Evan Babins)
Like generally speaking, we don't see as event producers, we don't see those people. They're in before the load it happens. They're running your, your lines. They're running the power distros. They're dropping chains for the trussing. What we see is we see our AV company who we work with who come in, you know,
0:33:41
(Evan Babins)
obviously if you're allowed to bring in your own AV, but we see that crew in and we see that crew at like rehearsals and at the show and everything else. So, when you don't see the vendors, like another great example of that is like the companies who generally run your hardwire internet lines. Generally speaking for trade shows, those are done before the floor is down on the trade show floor, which is well before clients come in, we come in and that's all done.
0:34:10
(Evan Babins)
So we don't see those people. We don't know those people. We don't really have a relationship. So that is difficult to turn those into partners. Where you have a bit of flexibility on that, I will say is if there's
0:34:25
(Evan Babins)
an big events and big shows, generally you would have like a pre con meeting where you're all your vendors are around the table, you go through the whole show, you do everything. That's your opportunity there, I think, to make those connections to forge those relationships, to be able to be like, Hey, this is what I do. This is what you do. Can we
0:34:45
(Evan Babins)
talk? Can we chat? Can we meet on the sidelines now that I know who you are? And then you can start and build and curate those relationships. So it's a bit of a tricky scenario, especially from those like more invisible vendors that you have and that that exist in the world, not impossible, but I would say there's easier vendors and harder vendors to get those relationships to move from vendor to partner.
0:35:15
(Chris Dunn)
Yeah. Can I, I wish to, Brandon, I know you've got another question here to follow through, but Evan brought up trade shows. Specifically, anybody who's done a trade show understands that there's a tremendous amount of people and companies that are in the background.
0:35:33
(Chris Dunn)
Freeman GES, Encore, and then all of the sometimes Internet comes from the convention center. And then there's the over the association running the show. There's an awful lot of cooks in the kitchen. And it doesn't happen necessarily with smaller or medium sized shows. If you're, especially if your booth or your stand
0:35:54
(Chris Dunn)
is not all that elaborate, but I can say that we've had very good luck when we've got a large elaborate project getting on the phone with the head of rigging, with the head of electrical, with the folks who are managing the material handling. If you're bringing in massive machines that weigh 40,000 pounds, that doesn't happen without
0:36:19
(Chris Dunn)
some conversations. We do the restaurant show for a client of ours, and we literally are building a restaurant on site within like four days. There's a lot that needs to happen between electrical plumbing, rigging,
0:36:33
(Chris Dunn)
everything to get all that stuff done. So we're having all these pre-conversations. And I wanna say that at like at the end of the day, those folks who were normally invisible, were just doing their thing behind the scenes. By having those conversations, we change what that relationship looks like dramatically. And they thank us at the end of the
0:36:51
(Chris Dunn)
conversation. They're like, Thank you so much for having this, this call with us, because we've just avoided and avoided wasting hours and hours guessing at what it is that you guys want or what you expect. So we all want to vilify the GCs like the Freemans and the GS and there's a lot there that I think is reasonable and on course, but at the end of the day, it's important for folks on our side of the fence to be willing to have those conversations
0:37:17
(Chris Dunn)
to at least put forth like, here are the drawings, here are the expectations, here's our timing, here's what we're thinking, what do you recommend? How do you guys wanna hang this sign? It's pretty elaborate, what would you guys do? Let's talk about it. And a lot of times just having those conversations
0:37:32
(Chris Dunn)
is a huge difference maker on that end. So you gotta be a good partner to the people who are hiring you if you wanna in turn turn around and hire people
0:37:42
(Brendon Hamlin)
and expect them to be good partners for you. It goes both ways. 100% Yeah. Are there other ideas you have, Evan, about sort of, you know, leaning on your vendors and really getting that getting their buy in and getting them to, just like Chris was saying, like really, you know, bring their expertise and not just punch a punch the clock and five o'clock I'm out of here. I know it's not done. Like, how do you how do you really get them motivated to help you?
0:38:09
(Evan Babins)
I think that's like a bit of a give and take. I think it needs to come from, you know, not only the vendor teams, the partner teams, and like their teams, telling them and sort of running down the list of like, here's the expectations. And, you know, especially if you're dealing with an account manager and then like that account manager has like onsite people that are not who you deal with. I don't want to one basis. Like that information is getting relayed to somebody else who's actually on site.
0:38:33
(Evan Babins)
You need to make sure that your expectations are being met and your expectations are being honored. And then, you know, as like the person running the show, the event producer, whatever it is, you know, you need to make sure that your expectations are being met and your expectations are being honored. And then, you know, as like the person running the show, the event producer, whatever it is, you know, you need to also be realistic with like, yes, there are long show days. Yes. Set up days are long. Shrek days are long,
0:38:59
(Evan Babins)
but like, I always look at it as like, if your crew isn't treated as a real person and this is like a massive industry wide conversation like you need to treat your crew and your team just like anybody else. Like they are working 16, 17, 18 hour days. If you don't as the event producer build in time for them to take breaks, have meals, have a rest time, have downtime.
0:39:27
(Evan Babins)
They're not going to perform and they're not going to do what you need to do so that your show looks great. So like it's not just the conversation of like, what does it look like from an agenda and a perspective of like the guest perspective and the attendee side, but it's like, how are you taking care of the crew and your team and your partners, you know, like to use a photographer example, like your
0:39:50
(Evan Babins)
photographer is shooting all day long. If you have them back to back, to back, to back, to back every single session, every single minute filled out, I can almost guarantee you, and I'm not a photographer, but like I can guarantee you by the session You're gonna start getting shitty photos, right? You're gonna get video That's like not what you want to be because they're getting burned out and they're getting tired and you know
0:40:13
(Evan Babins)
They need a break and they need to be able to you know Take a couple of minutes to upload their SD card to the computer to clear out the card so they have more room. And with that gives them a chance to get a coffee or a muffin or like whatever. Like it's, you need to, we talk a lot about building in rests for attendees
0:40:32
(Evan Babins)
because attendees have a very small attention span these days and we all know that. But it's the true, the same truth is for your partners and the team that's building and working on the show. And I think that's the part of the industry that people forget about and they don't really talk about too much.
0:40:49
(Evan Babins)
And it's so important. And it's it's almost critical that like your event is reliant on that. And if you don't do that, the output of the event will not be where you want it to be.
0:41:02
(Brendon Hamlin)
Totally. I can tell you from experience as a young producer, you know, saying, let's just grab some coffees and keep going that, you know, I, you know, I quickly manifest burnout in my team, because I wasn't giving them the time. So I've learned, you got to take care of the take care of the humans.
0:41:24
(Evan Babins)
Yeah, yeah. And that's like also part of like, when we're working on, you know, run a show documents and timelines and everything else. It's like, if you're not thinking about that kind of stuff, and if you're not getting your partner's input on those documents, like as an event producer,
0:41:40
(Evan Babins)
like I never work on those documents in a silo, because like, I don't those documents in a silo because like I don't always know as a videographer or as an AV team or as a, you know, catering company, like what do you need? What time, how long do you need before X things happens that you need to do? So you're ready for that cue or that action or whatever.
0:42:04
(Evan Babins)
Right. So you should always be talking to your vendors and your partners and getting their input on those documents. Because like I said earlier, like I'm not the expert on everything in the events world. Like I'm an expert of putting the right people in place that are the experts,
0:42:22
(Evan Babins)
but like, I'm not a videography expert. Like I'm not, I don't know how many cameras that I always need to get the shot that I'm looking for and like having the ability to get multiple angles and multiple shots simultaneously to cover the entire event main stage. Right. So, but if I work with the right people, they tell me what they need and how long
0:42:43
(Evan Babins)
they need to prep or to go between setups or like if we're in the main room and it ends at 11 and then we have to go to a breakout room and the video team needs an hour to tear down and reset up. Like I can't have that show started. The next piece of the show started in 25 minutes because they're not going to be ready.
0:43:03
(Evan Babins)
And like, then it's going to affect the output and the live stream and all these things, like it all bubbles up and it all goes together. So if like, I think that with all that comes down to is like, don't silo yourself from your partners, make your partners part of your process and give them a seat at the table and make them make it very well known that they are there for a reason to have that seat at the table because they're as equal to the
0:43:34
(Evan Babins)
operation of the event as you are as the event producer.
0:43:38
(Brendon Hamlin)
Yeah, 100%. And as and one other thing I'll just add as that event producer, it's really your job to protect all of those people many times from the client. Because the client, they're getting their breaks and they're getting their meals and they're getting their stuff, but and they're going to just keep on asking. And so I think that it's really incumbent upon that producer to be the the wall to say, look, you're not going to get what you want. If we don't let these guys take a break. For sure.
0:44:05
(Evan Babins)
And I was like, Sarah just put a great point in the, in the chat. And I just want to bring that up. Like so many times people say like, Oh, we have to save budget. We have to save money. We have to get like, if I know the show needs, you know, three shooters for photo to capture. Cause it's, you know, a multi-city, multi-venue show in the same city. And we have general session at this convention center, and then we're
0:44:31
(Evan Babins)
going to an evening event, you know, right afterwards with no breaks. Like you can't have the same people in multiple places. So like to, to, to struggle, to burn out your team on site because you can't find $5,000 more to hire on one or two more people. It literally is a make or break, like I kind of saying before that, like, it's
0:44:53
(Evan Babins)
such a justifiable expense or cost. To take that on, to make sure that no one's getting burned out, that everyone is, you know, on their game that no one's stretched burned out, that everyone is on their game, that no one's stretched too thin because how many times have we seen a photographer miss an important shot because they're on the way from somewhere else
0:45:14
(Evan Babins)
and it started before they were ready, right? And then on the end of the day, three months later when your show is done and you're getting ready to do your exports and you're doing recap posts on social or you're like getting ready to do your exports and you're doing a recap post on social or your your AGM like six months later and you have to put video together of a
0:45:31
(Evan Babins)
recap from the all the events you did over the whole year and you realize that you missed like the CEO Cutting the ribbon of the new, you know branch that was opening and that was the most important part of that video because you sacrificed a thousand dollars to not hire another shooter like Everything everything works together and everything Affects each other and what you do before the show
0:45:59
(Evan Babins)
Affects what happens nine months later And like two years later when you, when you're trying to find footage from a show that happens every two years that you want to try to replicate or do better at. And then you realize, oh, we forgot to hire a video team because we had to cut a cost two years ago.
0:46:20
(Evan Babins)
And now we have no idea what happened for our show this year.
0:46:23
(Speaker 10)
Yep.
0:46:32
(Evan Babins)
Evan, you got a huge fan. And now we have no idea what happened for our show this year. Yep. We'll end the rant on that.
0:46:35
(Chris Dunn)
Apparently we hit a chord.
0:46:36
(Evan Babins)
I think I just like so many people just like, they think that you can sacrifice budget and like budget is everything. And don't get me wrong, like budget is a big piece of events. I'm not sort of I'm not trying to minimize that. And like, yes, we have to stick to budgets. And, you know, certain times, especially on where I'm my role now, where I'm in house,
0:47:02
(Evan Babins)
you know, we get certain budgets for, you know, our global events for the year and on an individual level, we only have a certain number of dollars to spend on each event. But like, if you know what you're doing and you know like how to spend that money,
0:47:20
(Evan Babins)
you shouldn't have to sacrifice what you're trying to do for the event. If you're working with great partners who have your back, who will help you out if you need them to help you out from a cost perspective. Like if I've been working with someone for five or ten years and like I need to call in a favor because I have an event that's a smaller budget, but I know I need to get something out of it. A partner will be able to be be like yes, I see that relationship
0:47:46
(Evan Babins)
I see the help that you need now and we'll make it up on the next event or the other event You know coming up down the future So like I just like get really I get really like passionate about it like don't Sacrifice for the sake of just cutting a number Call in your favor, call in your partners, find the people who you know will have your back
0:48:11
(Evan Babins)
that will get you what you need in the best way possible.
0:48:15
(Brendon Hamlin)
And it's why cultivating a partnership makes, rather than just a race to the bottom to find something cheaper,
0:48:27
(Speaker 8)
really is gonna hurt you in the long run. 100%.
0:48:35
(Chris Dunn)
I love it. Well, listen, we are at 48 minutes. This has been this is flown by. So we're gonna start to we're gonna, we're gonna start to kind of put a wraps on it. But just a shout out to a couple of folks, Chris Musgrave with a couple of great comments in there. I think we kind of probably addressed and answered a couple of those things with regards to what he's seeing there from these mega vendors becoming, Freemans buying all sorts of people
0:48:55
(Chris Dunn)
or Encore bought all of the other AV groups. So you're right, it becomes more difficult when we're dealing with these giant conglomerations. And that's, I think one of the reasons, and granted it's not always possible, but when you look to a smaller organization,
0:49:11
(Chris Dunn)
you know you're not just gonna be a number because there's the desire to form a proper partnership that works both ways when you're working with a group and you can feel confident that they're gonna have your back versus again,
0:49:26
(Speaker 7)
who are you again?
0:49:28
(Chris Dunn)
You're just a number.
0:49:29
(Speaker 6)
Right.
0:49:30
(Chris Dunn)
So Evan, before we wrap up here, I asked you ahead of time to maybe have three like takeaways and maybe they're just a recap on what we've already talked about, but for our listeners and our viewers, are there three kind of action items
0:49:47
(Chris Dunn)
or anything that you can leave us with that will kind of put a bow, nice bow on everything we've talked about today?
0:49:53
(Evan Babins)
Yeah, I would say number one is like, be that quarterback in the room, find the right people who will help you and will have your back and you'll have their back. So that's number one. I think number two is like, when you get burned, learn from that.
0:50:11
(Evan Babins)
Learn what you did and what you can do so that it doesn't happen again. So learn from the mistakes that will always be made. Don't let them happen again. Don't let yourself be burned by the same vendor, or similar vendors who act the same way. And then number three, I think is like,
0:50:33
(Evan Babins)
treat partners the way you want to be treated by your clients. And then everyone will be able to work together in unison and in harmony, that you will be able to deliver great events. And that's from every single lens. That's from the client lens, that's from the producer lens,
0:50:49
(Evan Babins)
that's from the partner lens. Everyone is out here looking to do great work, working with great people, doing awesome events. And like, that's my mantra in life is like, let's do cool shit with great people who wanna have fun and have a great time doing it. So find your find your village, find your crew, however you want to call it.
0:51:10
(Evan Babins)
Find the people who, you know, at two in the morning, the night before the show, you can call and they'll pick up the phone and they won't ignore your call. And if you have great stuff like share with the industry, bring it to the world, let everyone see it, don't keep it behind closed doors because we all want to learn from each other.
0:51:30
(Evan Babins)
And so if I can see something that Brendon did on site that is super cool, like maybe I can adapt it and use it in my own world and how we do things, not stealing his ideas, but like let's all keep that cooperative industry mindset going and let's just all have a great time.
0:51:48
(Chris Dunn)
There you go, that's a fantastic bow on exactly what we're trying to do here on the Event Marketers Toolbox. So Evan, after this great conversation, I think there's a lot of folks out there that are wondering
0:52:00
(Evan Babins)
how do I get more Evan Babbins in my world? What's the best way to contact you? Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on social. I try to post as much as possible. I've got a hot topic that I posted about yesterday on LinkedIn.
0:52:15
(Evan Babins)
So if you haven't checked it out, we're talking about that post yesterday was how you can turn Costco into an event venue. And it's a lot of fun, but I really, a lot of really fun, a lot of fun comments on that one. So if you haven't checked out that post, check it out. But yeah,
0:52:30
(Speaker 5)
I'm around there.
0:52:31
(Chris Dunn)
It's going to be for the dollar 50 hot dogs. Right. So at least,
0:52:34
(Evan Babins)
yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Somebody mentioned like there was a comment that was like, we can use the executive membership as like selling it as sponsorship for those executive members. Like there's like, it's a total missed opportunity that Costco has totally missed the missed the boat on them. Hopefully maybe they'll see it and give me
0:52:55
(Chris Dunn)
credit for it. There we go. Oh, fantastic. That's good stuff. So, well, awesome guys. This has been a wonderful conversation. Thanks, everybody, who took part in the conversation. I do see a lot of input here. Carter, Sarah, Chris Musgrave, Bill, thanks, everybody, for being part of our conversation here. This event is obviously captured and will be available here on LinkedIn and on YouTube as the video piece. We're also on all of the podcast channels as well. That usually comes out in a couple of days. I'm a Spotify guy.
0:53:33
(Chris Dunn)
I listen to a lot of other podcasts. Every once in a while, my thing serves me up my own podcast, which I feel odd listening to, but at the same time, it's like, well, maybe I need to listen to this and see what I can do better next time. So appreciate everybody here on screen. Brendon, thank you very much.
0:53:55
(Chris Dunn)
Evan, always a pleasure to catch up and thanks for being our guest. Juana, from behind the scenes, thanks for running a great show. And everybody out there who has just watched us and to those folks who are going to be listening to us. So thanks very much. Cheers, happy eventing everybody.
0:54:13
(Chris Dunn)
And we'll see you again next week on the Toolbox. Take care, everybody. Take care, everybody.
0:54:17
(Evan Babins)
Thank you.
