EMT #31 with Chris Griffin - Chris Griffin’s Vision for the Future of Events and Industry Growth

In the latest episode of Event Marketer’s Toolbox, Chris Dunn and Dana Esposito chat with Chris Griffin, President of the EDPA and Owner of Crew XP. Chris shares valuable insights on leadership, industry advocacy, and the importance of building strong relationships in the events sector.

Chris discussed the crucial role of advocacy for the future of the industry, especially in his time at Legislative Action Day in Washington, D.C., where industry leaders lobbied for important policies. As Chris said, “If you're not at the table, you're on the menu.”

He also emphasized the power of relationship-building within the industry:
"You can’t just go to the table and ask for help—relationships are built through deposits, not withdrawals."

The conversation also touched on how the pandemic has sparked a new spirit of collaboration in the industry, allowing businesses to adapt and innovate together.

Another key point was workforce development. Chris highlighted the importance of mentoring young talent and showing them that event planning is a career worth pursuing.

• Advocacy: Industry professionals must engage in legislative action to drive change.
• Relationship Building: Success in events depends on strong, trust-based relationships.
• Collaboration: The pandemic’s challenges sparked a new wave of adaptability and innovation.
• Workforce Development: Encouraging younger generations to pursue careers in the events industry is crucial.

Listen to the Full Episode

Chris Griffin’s insights on leadership, advocacy, and building relationships offer key lessons for anyone looking to impact the events industry.

👉🏼 Join us for more insightful discussions like this by tuning into 'Event Marketer's Toolbox,' where industry leaders share the tools, tactics, and trends driving success in the event world.

This Show is sponsored by Blue Hive

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Guest Introduction
• 5:39 Leading the EDPA: Insights on Industry Change
• 12:39 Legislative Action Day: Behind-the-Scenes Insights
• 20:39 Building Relationships for Business Growth
• 28:39 Key Takeaways & Wrap-Up

Transcript

0:00:00
 (Chris Dunn)
 Hey, hello everybody and welcome to the Event Marketers Toolbox. I'm Chris Dunn. I am with Blue Hive Exhibits. I've got a couple of awesome industry legends here with me today. So this is going to be a great conversation. Thanks for joining us. I'm kicking it over to my co-host, Dana Esposito. Hey, Dana, how's it going?

0:00:19
 (Dana Esposito)
 Hey, Chris, both Chris's. So I am Dana Esposito. I'm also with Blue Hive Exhibits. I've been in the industry 30 years and I come from exhibit design as a designer and also engagements and also corporate strategy. And today we have one of my favorite industry people. We have Chris Griffin with us. Chris, you want to tell us a little bit about sort of who you are, where you came from?

0:00:47
 (Chris Griffin)
 Hey, guys, it's great to be with you. I appreciate the invite and being invited on to the Toolbox. I'm an active listener. And I know for you, it probably feels like you haven't been doing this this long, but man, you guys hit the ground running. Great guests, great format, professionalized. I've been a I'm a student of this medium. That'd be a great conversation about how we what podcasts are like in all our lives now. But you just you it's like you started in third year already. So congratulations. Thank you.

0:01:21
 (Chris Griffin)
 And as you know, so I'm so I'm finishing up my final year as the EDPA president. That's the Experiential Designer and Producers Association, for those that don't know. That is a collection of about 300 companies that are, the majority of which are the designers and builders, but we certainly have a lot of the service contractors and the suppliers to the industry as well. So it's a good group.

0:01:49
 (Chris Griffin)
 This is my, I think my 10th year between board work and then being on the executive committee. Previously to that, I had done a 10 year stint through the officer ranks as well with the EACA, the Exhibitor Appointed Contractors Association. And I currently serve as the treasurer

0:02:09
 (Chris Griffin)
 for the Exhibition Conferences Alliance, which is not an association, it's actually a collection of about 10 organizations that have common causes like advocacy and building back workforce and all of that good stuff. So, and really our industry has come together a lot more

0:02:26
 (Chris Griffin)
 in the last five years than it ever has been previously. So on my day job, I have a company called Crew XP. We design and build and support only exhibit houses and experiential agencies. We do not work directly with brands, but we have big facilities in Las Vegas,

0:02:47
 (Chris Griffin)
 in Orlando, Florida. Orlando is where I'm at today. So thrilled to be with you.

0:02:51
 (Speaker 15)
 Thanks for inviting me.

0:02:52
 (Speaker 18)
 Awesome.

0:02:53
 (Chris Dunn)
 Well, that's, first of all, thanks for being here. Honestly, so you mentioned just the medium. I started listening to your podcast several years ago, and I found it tremendously useful to kind of, you know, you guys were very industry specific. So we were, you're always doing these deep dives

0:03:14
 (Chris Dunn)
 into these really niche little things that not just anybody, you know, wanted to hear, but that's part of, we find our tribe and we figure out who we're talking to and we make sure our messaging resonates with those people.

0:03:25
 (Speaker 9)
 And just-

0:03:26
 (Chris Griffin)
 By the way, I'm so successful, Chris, three years in, I've developed tens and tens of followers.

0:03:32
 (Chris Dunn)
 Tens and tens. That's fantastic. How do you monetize that?

0:03:37
 (Speaker 5)
 Well, you know.

0:03:38
 (Speaker 14)
 You can't go to the grocery store

0:03:40
 (Dana Esposito)
 without being asked for an autograph.

0:03:41
 (Chris Dunn)
 If I'm at the right show, there's often a free beer. There you go. But seeing your podcast and what you guys were doing kind of led me down a similar path. We had Caitlin Correa last week on who is the CEO and president of Blue Hive. And it kind of told a little bit of the backstory of how we evolved from like, let's up our LinkedIn game and become more thought leaders. And then you know what, this show, you know, would be a great medium to do that. So that's a great segue, because we have a couple of sponsors that sponsor our show. Blue

0:04:23
 (Chris Dunn)
 Hive Exhibits being one of them. We are obviously a creative agency. We've got East Coast and West Coast representation with full shops, full working warehouses in both locations. We like to say that we're kind of in that right-sized model where we're not small.

0:04:39
 (Chris Dunn)
 We have boutique-like qualities in that we're awesome and creative and great to work with, but we're also not the big guys where you're just a number, right? Customer service, creativity, and end to end help with your trade show exhibit programs is really what we specialize in that end. But we're also sponsored by Fist Bump. Fist Bump is the group that's actually helping us produce this show. So Chris, you mentioned, what's it like to have a show

0:05:08
 (Chris Dunn)
 and use that platform to kind of share a lot of information. I was attempting to do this on my own and it was not happening. It was a full on fail as it were with me being able to get it launched. So the reason that it looked like we hit the ground running in third gear

0:05:27
 (Chris Dunn)
 is because Fist Bump does all the heavy lift for us, and we're super thankful. So we've got WANA on the producers board today, but a great organization through and through. If anybody else out there is interested in doing a show, they help us with all the production, with all of the promotion, they hand us the clips post-show and use those pieces as valuable content to share.

0:05:52
 (Chris Dunn)
 So a great nod to that group and we appreciate it. This is gonna be a great conversation today. Again, thanks for joining us. We have a live show, which normally we do, but we're here on the toolbox. We hopefully have a lot of folks checking in on LinkedIn, YouTube.

0:06:10
 (Chris Dunn)
 After the fact, this will be available on all of your favorite podcast platforms, but feel free to ask questions. Folks kind of checking in from the outside, let us know where you're at, but ask some questions and we'll try to work those into the conversation. So Dana, I'm going to kick it back to you and Mr. Griffin to start us off telling us a little bit about

0:06:28
 (Dana Esposito)
 the EDPA. Sure. So the Experiential Designers and Producers Association, as Chris Griffin mentioned, it's basically, for those of you who may not know, it's basically a large nonprofit organization that focuses on charitable works within our industry, education, and the future health of our industry. And there are a lot of different components of of course the EDPA. There is the Board of Directors, there's the Executive Committee, then if I was doing an imaginary org chart so to

0:07:02
 (Dana Esposito)
 speak, we have all of the committees and the committees are really on the ground doing a lot of work and their members, their volunteers from all different companies, whether it's an exhibit house or vendors and partners and providers, they all get together and they all have goals that they work on together. And then there's also the chapters that are regional and that's chapters, there's a lot of local things that happen.

0:07:27
 (Dana Esposito)
 That's where a lot of future leaders sort of bloom and start getting involved in EDPA. So the EDPA is a wonderful organization for our industry and protects us as well. And Chris Griffin is in his second year of being our fearless leader, our president right now.

0:07:43
 (Dana Esposito)
 And I've learned a lot from listening to him speak and to seeing how he works. And so I'm very appreciative for all the work that he does within the industry beyond the company of Crew XP that he has. So Chris, the first question for you is, can you share some of your perspective on the state of the industry and the role of EDPA driving industry change?

0:08:08
 (Speaker 5)
 Sure.

0:08:09
 (Chris Griffin)
 First of all, thank you for the kind words. Maybe the second question first on the role of EDPA. For those that aren't, I know everybody's probably, your listeners are probably aware of who they are, but you know, an association, any association exists to support and advance the interests of a group of like-minded businesses or people. We typically share a common profession or business interest.

0:08:39
 (Chris Griffin)
 It might be tax policy. It might be, in our case, workforce. I think it's workforce with a lot of people. It's basically, you know, it's the laws or rules or regulations that affect all of us for good or for bad. If you're a member of the National Federation of Independent Businesses, that's a huge organization. PCMA, we know, you know, this is EDPA's, again, about 300 company members. And I gotta tell you, it became really critical,

0:09:09
 (Chris Griffin)
 obviously during pandemic, when we were a coma patient and we were desperate for the medical attention of the United States government to help us get a pulse back and start to get up and rehab and move again. But I think, you know, separately, this is just my opinion. I think we all agree that Tommy Goodwin and I were having this conversation. He's the executive director of the ECA,

0:09:38
 (Chris Griffin)
 our political advisor. Political thinking, would you guys agree, is invading every area of our lives these days. We think about the political view when we see our neighbors across the street or our co-workers. Strangers. How about the brands you use? I don't want to do business with company, this company, or I do because of this or this. I find even the musicians I listen to, you know, who are speaking up, it may affect their opinion. So, you know, doesn't it make sense

0:10:12
 (Chris Griffin)
 if you're not active in EDPA, doesn't it make sense to be part of something or a group that has common interests and let's get closer to those apparatuses, those infrastructures like local government or federal or charity work or whatever it is. Let's get closer to it as a group to have more impact on that. So I don't care which side of the political fence you live on. I think people want to feel they have some type of an influence over those things in their lives. So Tommy Goodwin has a great expression. He always tells me, he said, if

0:10:51
 (Chris Griffin)
 you're not at the table, then you're on the menu. And we learned that on Capitol Hill, right? Where this last round of legislative action data, I know we may come back to that, but there were four things we were talking about up there They're the four Ts we're talking about taxes tax policy because this one that was just renewed in the bill all small businesses were going to get a 20% tax increase if those Version one Trump tax cuts were allowed to expire. They were supposed to be temporary. So That was their original intent, but if they weren't renewed, we're all paying 20% more tax.

0:11:28
 (Chris Griffin)
 So tariffs was another one. Travel, we're still fighting the good fight on visa wait times, which is really just a function of how well staffed the embassies are. But how come it takes 589 days to get a business visa to come to a trade show if you live in India? Right. China's down to 70 days. There was anyway, there's hundreds of days of waiting and and we still don't have about about half of those International travelers coming back and for those keeping score

0:12:00
 (Chris Griffin)
 30% of all participants in the US trade show game, that's exhibitors and attendees, 30% of them come from other countries. So we need to make it easy for them to come here. And then the last thing was, the fourth T was talent, which is workforce. We all get and understand that,

0:12:18
 (Chris Griffin)
 we had this near extinction event that happened in March of 2020 for us. 2.8 million full-time employees in our industry were laid off, furloughed or terminated. To date, a little more than 10% of them, about 300,000, have not returned. We already had an aging problem. The average age of the person on the show floor, working on the show floor, was between 56 and 58 years old, depending

0:12:44
 (Chris Griffin)
 on what city you were in. Same with the back of the house trade skills labor, like the master carpenters and the cabinet makers. So we already had an aging out problem. And then you look at those folks that didn't come back. And so as we try and repopulate the industry, we're realizing you're 26 years old and under most of them have never heard of our industry and Most of them have no interest in a trade skills job. So edpa has been leading the charge last five years We really are working hard to do some things to

0:13:16
 (Chris Griffin)
 So aging problem with the older group. We have an exposure problem with a younger group So, how do we get out there and tell them who we are and let them know you can make a great living and support your families. And it's not just working with a saw in a shop. We need project managers and designers and salespeople and accounting people.

0:13:35
 (Chris Griffin)
 So anyway, an association, just to close out that, is a great medium, a great vehicle for us to come together and unite with other industry associations around these common causes that need the same type of help that we do. So got super proud of what EDPA has become. Dana, you mentioned the chapters. So I think one of the things I'll walk away, I was asked recently, can you write your, your, your obituary

0:14:04
 (Chris Griffin)
 as EDPA president? I guess they ask all presidents do that. What do you want to be remembered for? I love the fact that I've been part of a group that has helped strengthen that, the chapters. I go back to when I first joined EVPA, there's two big chapters that kind of led the pack. I remember when the Northeast chapter where you guys are got started and now it's a powerhouse, right? So it's, Dana said it, we have 25 full-time board members of which we elect six to be on the executive committee. That group, that's sort of the day-to-day

0:14:39
 (Chris Griffin)
 decision-making. And where do we get the talent in the board, in the EC? Well, typically for the EC, you look at the full board to try and move people up. That's where the doers are and the people that wanna do association work. And we look at the chapters to populate the national board

0:14:55
 (Chris Griffin)
 and the chapters, there's nine chapters, all great, all active, all espousing the four key pillars of EDPA. By the way, the way I always remember the four,

0:15:06
 (Speaker 17)
 what is it we stand for again?

0:15:08
 (Chris Griffin)
 I think of the word gain, right? Good works, advocacy, great networking events and education. You may or may not be aware that since the recovery of pandemic, one in three people that work in this industry are now new to the industry, one in three people that work in this industry are now new to the industry, one in three.

0:15:26
 (Chris Griffin)
 So we have a need for material to, you know, not just train them up and coach them up. Maybe it's just, you know, tools like this podcast to help onboard them. If you're coming from an ad agency, but not from the face-to-face event world,

0:15:40
 (Chris Griffin)
 man, you go through your library of toolbox episodes. Let me tell you something, they're gonna learn an awful lot about this industry. So I love how our industry is looking right now in terms of the maturity and the professionalizing that's happening in particularly within the EPA community.

0:15:58
 (Speaker 8)
 So.

0:15:58
 (Chris Dunn)
 Yeah, if I could kind of add to that, I really felt like when we had no work during the pandemic, which the word that shall remain unnamed, which we talk about all the time, but we felt like what it was to have no work and how empty everything was, it was horrible

0:16:17
 (Chris Dunn)
 and the need to kind of raise the tide for everybody. So I felt like at that point, the color of your laundry, the company that you like at that point, the color of your laundry, the company that you represented at that point became so much less concerning or important. And it was more about like, we're all in this together. We've got to work together to bring this thing back up. So as somebody who kind of has that 10,000 or even 30,000 foot view of the industry,

0:16:42
 (Chris Dunn)
 it's great to hear that you're seeing, it's not just something I've felt, but it's something that you're seeing across the board where we are, there's a lot of us that are competitors, but yet we're friendly competitors, there's people who move between the companies, so you naturally have relationships with people

0:16:59
 (Chris Dunn)
 who work at other companies that you compete against, but yet we can all join together and make sure that our industry is robust and strong and we're doing the right thing to do all the things, right? To make shows, the ROI for our clients better so that they experience a better show experience

0:17:19
 (Chris Dunn)
 and they wanna spend the money to come back because let's face it, it's an expensive venture, right? It's gotta work, right? So raising the bar, the board just raises the tide and lifts all ships as it were.

0:17:31
 (Chris Griffin)
 The door I came in into the industry as an owner was really on the labor side, right? And so there's a great word. If you're out at a big show, there's always been this spirit of co-opetition that exists between the labor companies. Hey, man, my genie lift is down at the other end of the hall, but if I'm a legit guy, I know that I can go to ... I know the guys from Nth and the guys from Eagle and Momentum or Lime, and I can grab your 16-foot ladder and you know you can do the same thing

0:18:05
 (Chris Griffin)
 or if you need something out of my job box. That always, I think that's always existed in the IND world. Where fierce competitors get the work. Once the shows are moving in, we've always been that. I think since pandemic,

0:18:16
 (Chris Griffin)
 and I think we're far enough past it, Chris and Dana, that we can now say this and not whisper it. And that is, there's some positives that came out of that pandemic. I can list them in my company, but one of them is the different associations,

0:18:35
 (Chris Griffin)
 service contractors and the builders and the labor companies and the association executives, they were very siloed. And, you know, we didn't necessarily play well with each other. That is so not the case. We see each other at every everyone's industry associations.

0:18:56
 (Chris Griffin)
 We typically are inviting the leadership from other associations to ours. And we are for sure coming together on common causes like sustainable practices or like we would on Legislative Action Day. And we're pooling dollars. We need a video for the industry to go out to all these schools and places globally to teach young people what this industry really looks like. So, you know, if I have in my budget, let's say $5,000 for that kind of a project,

0:19:30
 (Chris Griffin)
 but I turn to five or six other like-minded associations, now I've got a real budget and we can put something together that we can all use. We're doing way more stuff like that. And that breaks down barriers on some stuff that used to be hard to talk to each other about. So that's, again, I think that's,

0:19:48
 (Chris Griffin)
 it was the crisis near extinction event that realized we really do need each other and we're kinder and more cooperative with each other.

0:19:57
 (Chris Dunn)
 And I love that.

0:19:58
 (Speaker 9)
 Absolutely.

0:19:59
 (Chris Dunn)
 We got a good comment here from Chris Musgrave. And Chris, I know you're a regular viewer and listener here. So appreciate the input. He's saying it's far too much sub-renting to still call each other competitors and that's a great point, right? We think about all of the AV partners that are out there and half the times you're using a smart source or AV dimensions or something and all the gear comes in and it's got everybody else's names all over it, right? So that side of the house has definitely figured out a collaborative effort.

0:20:30
 (Chris Dunn)
 And the idea that like if I got a bunch of stuff sitting in my warehouse and you want to rent it at a discounted rate and no one else is going to rent it, then by all means like this is a business model that you've heavily leaned into, obviously Chris as a white label producer, really somebody who supplies people like us. You know, you've got key locations,

0:20:50
 (Chris Dunn)
 you've got all the frames, all the cabinets and all the stuff, you know, in those, you know, forward deployed locations that we can lean into and use you guys as a really important, you know, partner. It kind of, so that's the other thing, right, too, is rather than viewing each other as competitors

0:21:09
 (Chris Dunn)
 is the idea of how can we partner together? Yeah, we might compete against each other on some things over here, but over here we can have a good working relationship.

0:21:20
 (Speaker 16)
 That's a great point.

0:21:21
 (Chris Griffin)
 First of all, thank you for the mention of that. But we're all busy in the busy seasons. That's a great point. First of all, thank you for the mention of that. But, you know, we're all busy in the busy seasons. And our model is only to the trade partners. And really, it's not, we really aren't opening our doors to walk up or casual or occasional business. We're looking for people that see us more as a strategic partner because we made a huge investment in facilities and talent and

0:21:48
 (Chris Griffin)
 Inventory, so we're we want that available for the people that use us regularly however, there's this silent community of Like a blue hive and a crew XP in Las Vegas. I'm Literally right next door to Blue Hive. Like if you were gonna go borrow a cup of sugar

0:22:08
 (Chris Griffin)
 from a neighbor, Blue Hive's who I would walk over. And I think there's the Eagle Rider, Harley Davidson dealers the only people between us and Blue Hive.

0:22:19
 (Dana Esposito)
 So-

0:22:20
 (Dana Esposito)
 Next time I'm out there, I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna come to you and ask for sugar.

0:22:23
 (Chris Griffin)
 Griffin promised me sugar. But your, your, your ops, your director of ops has been in my shop if he's seven or 11 frames short on something and we've done the same. You know, we heavily invested in some cool looking, you know, custom drop in place counters, cabinets, with the LED lighting in the top and in the bottom.

0:22:48
 (Chris Griffin)
 But if you need 51 of them that match, there's not a ton of people that might have that. So those sort of that are in the partnering with others know that we might be an option to look at in a couple of markets. But no, you're right.

0:23:05
 (Chris Griffin)
 It's, I think the comment that Chris made was dead on. We're partnering up too often. And by the way, I'd love to come back and we have another conversation. Why that is good, profitable economic sense to do those things.

0:23:22
 (Chris Griffin)
 Especially if you're a smaller midsize company, you're not really able to afford to invest in the inventory or the infrastructure of facility and people. But if you want to compete in major markets, Boston, San Fran, Las Vegas, Florida, Atlanta, there's very often a local partner that you can partner with. EDPA is a great way, not to do another plug there, to meet that community. So yeah, this is much more normal

0:23:51
 (Dana Esposito)
 post-pandemic than I think before. When I first started in the industry 30 years ago, it felt much more competitive in a negative way, more the traditional, like, it's us against them. Like, it's always us against them. And then as we get towards sort of the whole COVID situation, some of those barriers were dissolving. And it was more like, because our industry is small enough that it's very like incestuous, right? People move around from company to company. And it's more like, well, I don't work at that company anymore. But those are still my friends, those are

0:24:25
 (Dana Esposito)
 still my professional friends, and they lean on each other. And then COVID happened. And to your point, Chris Griffin, it really kind of was this magnetic pull together. And it amplified, literally, like what EDPA is, is that's their core. That's the whole point behind the EDPA. And now it seems to be more of the common way of thinking for, for so many companies, which, which I love. And I'm not trying to talk about EDPA incessantly here. But say the EDPA, like with the Mentorship Program, which has been around for easily over a decade, like before I was even helping in it, it existed, right? And so essentially, if you think of that

0:25:05
 (Dana Esposito)
 in its simplest form, there are college students that are being mentored by people working at companies that they may never go and work at those companies. So essentially someone from your company is mentoring someone who may go work at a competitor, right? So that is that future workforce

0:25:22
 (Dana Esposito)
 and like selfless sharing of knowledge for educational purpose for the industry. And to me, I love how that feeling is is throughout the industry now. And I've worked at companies, to your point, Chris, that were like, say, it's a midsize company, and they need another 50B Matrix panels, they know who their friendly competitors are that they can rent them from. And to your point, that's a great way to make your company larger without a large investment. And you're still serving your client very well. And I don't know, I think that's a really healthy way to have partners, right? And even your providers are not vendors, they're also your partners.

0:26:07
 (Dana Esposito)
 Everybody's your partner.

0:26:08
 (Chris Griffin)
 Last week, I know you had your president on. She was talking about trust as one of the main topics. This is what we're talking about. It's funny to me. We still will get an email request from somebody who might, let's just say it's 20 counters and 10 three meter back walls. And they will redact or black out like the name of their end user client. And it's like, seriously,

0:26:38
 (Chris Griffin)
 are you thinking we're gonna call them directly? I mean, we just, at some point you do have to trust. And again, where our model is, we just, we point you do have to trust. And again, where our model is, we won't work directly with them. But you're right about how incestuous this industry is. I used to tell people it's like the Kevin Bacon game, right, in Hollywood, right? Three names and we're all connected back. I think we're all in a bit, we're in the crisis management business. That's what the

0:27:01
 (Chris Griffin)
 event industry is. And so when I talk to young people, we need critical thinkers. People think like this. And sometimes you're valuable not because of what you know, and it's not even because of who you know. It might be what you know about who you know that gets that favor done or has somebody turn the car around on a Friday and has their warehouse guy meet them and they come and pull something for you because you need it Saturday. I will say this, we are deliberately trying to leave the 911

0:27:34
 (Chris Griffin)
 exhibit business behind, right? Because it's just, we were those guys and we thought, hey, that's how we'll earn all this business. And the truth is, it didn't, we just became a place where problems collected. So but that's what but every but every one of us has that. And hopefully, it's why you have great processes, and great people leading those processes in your shops, because, you know, like you're like us, right, you're dress rehearsing

0:28:00
 (Chris Griffin)
 everything before it goes out to show site, because you know, that the same mystical force that removes the sock from the dryer when you do laundry, it takes stuff out of the exhibit crate by the time it shows up on show site. So dress rehearsals are the

0:28:16
 (Dana Esposito)
 best way.

0:28:17
 (Dana Esposito)
 Yeah. Murphy's Law is always- Now why do you think it shows up? Yeah. Murphy's Law is always lurking somewhere in the shadows. And you're right, it kind of, it almost doesn't matter what your talent is, because we can apply so many of your talents in this industry. You just need to be a get shit done person.

0:28:35
 (Dana Esposito)
 Like if whatever your role is, plus you're a get shit done of one of those people, this industry is perfect. I'm not sure HR allows us to word it that way. I live on the cusp of HR.

0:28:48
 (Chris Dunn)
 She plays in the gray area.

0:28:51
 (Dana Esposito)
 I'm in the gray area. They know, they know.

0:28:53
 (Chris Griffin)
 I sense that you skipped the litigation avoidance seminar.

0:28:56
 (Dana Esposito)
 I watched it, but I don't understand big words.

0:29:00
 (Speaker 14)
 Okay, there you go.

0:29:02
 (Chris Dunn)
 You lost me at litigation. Chris Musgrave with another good point here is you know, in this, it's all about brand alignment right with the latest model of the absorption of these mega vendors right, the smaller independent people need to stick together in order to be able to you know, find opportunities. Freeman continues to absorb, right? And we have to work with them,

0:29:27
 (Chris Dunn)
 but at the same time, they're not shy about wanting to compete with us too, on the front end.

0:29:33
 (Chris Griffin)
 No, but you know, Chris, to your point about like the collection of those vendors, I had a great guy that ran manufacturing for Skyline back in the 90s when I was coming up as a sales rep. He was a 3M guy and he talked about the need for creating oneness.

0:29:51
 (Chris Griffin)
 He was talking about the company but he did this with his fingers. So anybody that's just listening, not watching, I apologize. But this is what you want the client to see. But really, you've got graphic vendors

0:30:04
 (Chris Griffin)
 and freight vendors and outsource vendor. But we, we all I, we know I'm fine when people go, how come I've never heard of you guys? Because we're invisible link, because people don't like to promote that they're outsourcing work. It doesn't mean it's not a good business sense. So we'll line up wherever you tell us in that us in that oneness effort of

0:30:26
 (Chris Griffin)
 your, I don't even like the word network anymore. I like collective. I like oneness. I'd heard it

0:30:32
 (Chris Dunn)
 is a we-ness in the past, but then when you say we-ness, it just sometimes can get weird.

0:30:37
 (Chris Griffin)
 Yes, you know what? You're getting back into that HR danger zone.

0:30:41
 (Dana Esposito)
 Mine was much safer, just for clarity.

0:30:45
 (Chris Dunn)
 Okay, listen, we got 30 minutes under our belt already here, and we have touched on Legislative Action Day, but I want to kind of swing back to that, because you've done six of these, and you described briefly kind of the evolution of what you've seen, kind of going from pre-COVID to post-COVID. You go in, you've got a reason to be there. You guys did a nice job of arranging, you know, your main points as the four Ts. But give us, I guess, a little bit more of a peek behind the curtain, Chris, is like, what does this look like? This past year? How many people from the EDPA went down? You must have had like 60,

0:31:26
 (Chris Griffin)
 80 people with you. So set a record for our group on Capitol Hill. We had 170 companies participating. About a third of those were EDPA members. And I will tell you that I just can't say enough, Tommy Goodwin and the job he does and his team does on the front end, and that's the appointment setting, that's the no before you go calls to prepare you. You really, from my very first time to what I just experienced, the anxiety is removed. We all get together at eight o'clock for breakfast the morning that we're going to be on the hill,

0:32:05
 (Chris Griffin)
 as they say. And you've got, when you sit down at your table, there's a packet that if I'm representing, caucusing with a Florida delegation, or if you're with the Massachusetts, you've got statistics and data about how many events and how many people are employed in the economic impact in your state. So you're ready for that. You've got a little thing, little bullet point list of the four things we're talking about

0:32:30
 (Chris Griffin)
 and some talking points for each. There's a QR code that you can scan and get that sheet that you have. So, I mean, we just are really, really well prepared. The transportation very often is moved around. The people that do the scheduling try to not have,

0:32:47
 (Chris Griffin)
 it's a lot of walking, but they try to not have you crisscrossing from the Russell building to the Hart building to back over to a Congressional, the Congressional offices are in two buildings and the Senate office are in two buildings.

0:33:02
 (Chris Griffin)
 And we're probably all gonna have lunch in the rotunda under the Capitol, where us and 2000 high school kids that have been bused in, we'll all share a meal together. But, um, it is, um, it is our chance to speak truth to power. I've made this the thing I've stuck with every year because I live through

0:33:23
 (Chris Griffin)
 pandemic. I live through what happened to the economy when 9-11 happened. When that happened, it took four years for our industry to get back to the same economic level with events as it was before. When the housing collapsed, October 2008, really 2009, the economy collapsed. It was 10 years to get back to where we were at the same robust economic attendance level and spend level that was going into your local economies. Then we had this thing, I don't know what you call it and how long it'll take. Chances are there's going to

0:34:00
 (Chris Griffin)
 be something again. But what we learned when we went up on Capitol Hill for pandemic is, guys, our elected officials never heard of us. We were contributing $101 billion in 2019 to the US economy. That is some indirect, but it's the exhibit trees and the hotels and the airlines

0:34:22
 (Chris Dunn)
 just to get going there. That's just US, Chris. That's not global, that's just US.

0:34:26
 (Chris Griffin)
 North America, yeah.

0:34:27
 (Chris Dunn)
 And that's billion with a B, not million with an M.

0:34:30
 (Chris Griffin)
 That's correct. They thought we were the home show guys. Oh yeah, I've been to a home show or a boat show. It took two years for them to really understand. When we go greater right now, with like the Avengers say, without that asteroid event

0:34:50
 (Chris Griffin)
 pending, without the crisis that everybody's paying attention to, how do we stay relevant so when we need them the next time? And we do that through engagements. We pick one day a year we go up and make sure you know who we are.

0:35:04
 (Chris Griffin)
 We pick meaningful topics to talk about. We stay in touch with them throughout the year. We tap into local press, whether it's, and now podcasting is a new way to get out there and you can tag people that are important to make sure are listening to this.

0:35:21
 (Chris Griffin)
 But so this is invisible no more. We can't afford to wait because do you know how many thousands of business, small businesses closed while we were ramping up? A few of us got PPP1 by the way, ECA and the stakeholders. We were in the room with Senator Marco Rubio's staff, putting some of that language together in those early days. We were in those discussions when there was PPP too.

0:35:52
 (Chris Griffin)
 We learned about the EIDL loans and the Main Street loans, and we did a good job, and a lot of our members sort of tapped into that. This is what we do. And now I think advocacy is not just, you know, yeah, you should take a look at trade and do trade shows. This

0:36:09
 (Chris Griffin)
 is we are an industry that, you know, almost 100% of us are small businesses, right, which make up 50% of the US economy. So every single trade show or business event like that is its own small business incubator. Right. So I just I think what we do, guys, is like very, very noble. I think we help the world trade.

0:36:32
 (Chris Griffin)
 And that's if you want to help not to get on a soapbox here, if you want to help Ukraine or you want to help the people of Gaza or you want us to send money to whatever cause you feel is important. We need a healthy economy, raging economy to be able to afford to do those things. So I think we're on the team that is all about supporting that.

0:36:54
 (Dana Esposito)
 I was so surprised back at the beginning of COVID when some of the numbers and data was coming out of really how much money our industry pushes into the country and to cities and to recognize that the money from our industry literally helps keep some cities running. You know, the businesses and the individuals, whether it's, you know, servers at a restaurant, transportation, you know, you name it.

0:37:22
 (Dana Esposito)
 So the exhibits and event industry is vital. I was surprised about the data. I was impressed, you know, being in it. I kind of assumed, but to see the numbers is always like, I love metrics. And then on top of that, when you guys were first going down to DC and you were telling us, reporting back about, of course I didn't even think that, you know, that was something people like us could do, right? And then here you guys are, like, heading the charge down there. And I was so impressed, but I was shocked to hear that they really didn't think of us,

0:37:53
 (Dana Esposito)
 they didn't know of us, they didn't understand it, they didn't know, they didn't know of our industry, and to the extent they also had no idea of those numbers either. And so I just thought it was so valiant what you guys were doing. And I love that you still go down there and it continues to grow. And now they literally know who, who you guys are, like who we are, who our industry is when you go down there. So as much, I would love more people from our industry to, you know, reach out to you guys and go down for Legislative Actions Day. And if someone likes the idea of it, and they're intimidated by it, because some people have said that to me, as a Board of Director person as well, and I've said, you know, the team really makes a point of giving you all the information that

0:38:35
 (Dana Esposito)
 you need. So it's not, it's not scary. It's really good. And it's everyone who I know who has gone has had nothing but great positive response and said that they are so glad that they participated. So I encourage people to do that and personally I just really appreciate that people take the time out of their you know because everything that people do for this industry beyond their day job or EDPA really that's that's another thing right on top of family and and work that people are finding time

0:39:05
 (Dana Esposito)
 because it's important and worthy. So yeah, I just really appreciate it.

0:39:10
 (Chris Griffin)
 Well, again, I appreciate you saying all that. Part of what this discussion is about is, you know, the vision or where do we see the industry going? I see this being a thing that sticks. By the way, I took my oldest daughter one year because when's she ever going to get

0:39:25
 (Chris Griffin)
 a chance to see how the United States government actually works? Another thing Tommy says, he goes, were you shocked to learn that the country is run by a bunch of 26-year-olds based on 15-minute meetings? I go, I actually feel better when you realize, because they really are great. Every one of them has to write a paper up and present it to their member about who they meet with. And there's a lot that happens.

0:39:51
 (Chris Griffin)
 But anyway, I love that our industry has grown sophisticated enough now that we care about this.

0:39:56
 (Speaker 15)
 Yeah, all pulling together.

0:39:58
 (Chris Griffin)
 And shout out to Dashiello, our executive director. He's carrying the torch, keeping this culture alive all year long. So are the chapter presidents and, you know, guys like Rob Cohen and Matthew Little and I mean, there's too many names. So I apologize for missing people. But we really have a great group that shows.

0:40:18
 (Speaker 6)
 We do. We show up.

0:40:20
 (Chris Dunn)
 And we all love data, right? And we're all we're all being in the industry for a number of years. People are always throwing these acronyms at you. Oh, trade shows, yeah, do you know? My company goes to AABLM. And like, do you understand that there's 13,500 shows

0:40:35
 (Chris Dunn)
 that happen just in the US alone? Like, I don't know all the acronyms and no, we're not involved with the trade.

0:40:42
 (Chris Griffin)
 We love our TLAs.

0:40:43
 (Speaker 14)
 Absolutely.

0:40:45
 (Chris Dunn)
 We love our acronyms. All right. Dana, let's get to the valuable relationships built in the event industry. We're talking about it in different ways, but let's kind of circle back.

0:40:58
 (Chris Dunn)
 This is one other piece that we wanted to just kind of hit on, the importance of it, how it happens. And obviously, we're talking about the benefits of it, right? When you've got a bunch of individuals working in silos, they're only as powerful as their own piece, right? But when you pull together, then you can become a whole lot more, you know, the sum is greater than the whole. You didn't tell me there was going to be math. There's math involved? Sorry.

0:41:25
 (Dana Esposito)
 You're really good at math. You're fine.

0:41:27
 (Speaker 13)
 I would have studied differently.

0:41:28
 (Chris Dunn)
 You wouldn't have worn socks so you could easily count your toes.

0:41:33
 (Dana Esposito)
 So Chris Griffin, so there's a lot of Chris's on the call today. So Chris Griffin, so can you talk a little bit about your approach to fostering collaborative and thriving business environment in the events industry, especially as a business owner or points for people who aren't a business

0:41:50
 (Speaker 12)
 owner.

0:41:51
 (Chris Griffin)
 I'm thinking of two things right now. Because I think for the sales staff that's listening to your set your episode this week is your thing about relationships probably with your clients, right, which is important to foster. And, but I if I think what you're talking about is really inter that's the vendor partnerships and the industry partnerships. So we are an industry that is made up of leaning on each other. There's nobody I don't care. You all we

0:42:20
 (Chris Griffin)
 do it all in house. Hey, you don't own your own tractor trailer trucks to ship from one place to another. You probably don't own all your own LED skins or AV. I think in two ways, but I'm also a fulfillment partner for others. I think about, am I looking for relationships of people, of companies that are going to send work to me? Or am I looking for relationships of people, of companies that are going to send work to me?

0:42:46
 (Chris Griffin)
 Or am I looking for relationships of people that are going to fulfill work for me? And I do have different criteria for each one of those. But I think step one is, if you guys know you're looking for a new AV vendor or a new freight carrier relationship, it would be helpful if you know the things that are most important to you. So for example, freight. I pick freight companies by the dispatcher. I love my sales reps, but let me tell you something, when it's knuckle down time,

0:43:17
 (Chris Griffin)
 does that dispatcher take my call at night or on the weekend? Can they say, let me call you back in five minutes? And they're on the phone with the driver. And here's one we get a lot and tell me you guys don't occasionally get this, Chris. You know, they go, no, I just checked in.

0:43:34
 (Chris Griffin)
 Driver's already at the Marshall Yard. No, no, no, no. And by the way, if you hit up the experience builders stuff, we did my partner who was with a VP with GES for 10 years, the guy that runs our Vegas operation. Martin was in charge of the Marshall Yard at one point for the CES show and Con Ag Con Expo. And so your driver says he's there, he's in line to get a number so he can get into the Marshall line. That's not being there.

0:44:06
 (Chris Griffin)
 So one thing we talked about was, no, my driver said he's there. What's his number? So if he already got a number and he's just waiting to be dispatched, he'll have a number.

0:44:16
 (Speaker 9)
 If they go, what are you talking about?

0:44:17
 (Chris Griffin)
 He's been there since 6 a.m. No, no, no, no, he's not in yet. Right. So it so you know, so if I'm choosing a vendor, I want somebody that isn't fluent, if you're afraid, in all of those things. Bad sign, if you come to pick up the three ship, the three booths that are going to the same show, and you show up with a 26 foot box truck. And

0:44:42
 (Chris Griffin)
 this is going to take 43 feet of trailer to put in these assets non stackable. Why do we not want them non stackable? Because we don't want to get hit for special handling, which is what they do anyway, whether it's a big so what I look for is what's my criteria if you can write that, you know, maybe there's three things, maybe there's 13 things. But I think it would be helpful

0:45:09
 (Chris Griffin)
 to when you're when you're selecting those those partners, know what it is you're looking for. I would also I know we have a lot of customers and I don't know how you guys do it. But a lot of times project managers and account managers are allowed to pick their vendors. My recommendation as we've gotten larger and more mature is

0:45:31
 (Chris Griffin)
 we have a preferred vendor and that's our primary and they probably get 70% of our work. And then we have two others and we'll split between them. And they know where they are in our back end and they're vying for a bigger opportunity. But what we don't do is have 10 different vendors that we all just shop on price because there's too much riding on it. So anyway, those relationships I'm investing

0:45:56
 (Chris Griffin)
 in Dana is I'm looking for something like that criteria. I'll be honest, the relationships with other associations like Julie Kege and the ESCA team, right, like Vinnie Pulido who runs the SISO, the Society of Independent Show Organizers, those guys have a different perspective. I've been to their conference, holy cow are they smart.

0:46:19
 (Chris Griffin)
 And they're smart in ways I don't think about. We're worried about, oh, did we get exhibitors coming back. Those guys are obsessing about the fact that attendance is down, right. And I used to think, oh they only care about making money off of whatever their kickback is on material handling or electrical. I've been in those meetings, they have detailed conversations that their show is they're in the lead generation business. So they're thinking about how do we create opportunities and moments for sponsors, which we call exhibitors, to be able to generate

0:46:59
 (Chris Griffin)
 those leads and capture those leads. So they think about the technology and they think about other events, like not on the show floor around that are tied to that, that bring community together. So I'm just really, it's been, I think it's worth investing in learning about

0:47:16
 (Chris Griffin)
 those other areas of industry that are involved. And if you can get a networking opportunity where you meet some of those people and telling you good things happen. They will, anybody you meet, and we know this from trade shows, right?

0:47:31
 (Chris Griffin)
 You go face to face with somebody and you have a beverage or a coffee or a meal together. They're taking your call, right? After the event, I know you now. Chris, I see your stuff all the time. You know, you're hooking up with people for coffee or a beer

0:47:45
 (Chris Griffin)
 or at a show. And if there's a need, a business need, right? Relationship deposits have to be made. You can't just, somebody calls me 13 years ago, we worked together and you're calling me on a Sunday night for a crisis Monday morning.

0:48:00
 (Chris Griffin)
 You've made no deposits in the relationship. You just wanna withdraw, right? I think you have to make four deposits before you're entitled to make a withdrawal in a relationship. So that's kind of what I look for.

0:48:12
 (Chris Dunn)
 Perfect. And I'm glad you kind of quantified that with a number, right? It's like,

0:48:17
 (Speaker 11)
 a bunch of coffee that one time.

0:48:19
 (Chris Griffin)
 You don't otherwise you're like, John, stop calling me.

0:48:22
 (Speaker 10)
 Stop calling me. Stop calling me.

0:48:32
 (Chris Dunn)
 Hey, we're getting some other comments here. John Zappe is checking in. You're right, John, right? So there's something that happens every once every 10 years-ish and we're halfway through or something weird is going to happen again, unfortunately. And we see you there, KG, a little late to the game, but yes, you can absolutely go back. Our show is obviously being recorded on tape, on A-track tapes for the older audience. So you can watch it again here on LinkedIn.

0:49:02
 (Chris Dunn)
 You can see it on YouTube and again, it shows up on the platform. Chris, we're usually trying to dial in our timeframe at about 45 to 50 minutes. We're there, but just really one important thing

0:49:14
 (Speaker 9)
 that you want to hit on.

0:49:15
 (Speaker 8)
 Is that the next thing you're looking for? In conclusion.

0:49:18
 (Chris Dunn)
 What I want to talk about really briefly is sustainability, right? And this is sustainability, right? And this is a, this is honestly, this is another show that's coming at us. This is hours worth of conversation, but Chris prior to, we'll kind of zoom in on that a little bit.

0:49:31
 (Chris Dunn)
 Prior to our show said, hey, here's some things that I'm thinking about. You provided me with an ESCA's top 10 industry sustainability practices in 2025. This is something, it's a PDF. It's got a bunch of really great things

0:49:46
 (Chris Dunn)
 that we're actually by and large already doing that are kind of moving the needle. But we're gonna put this in the show notes after the fact so people can go find this PDF. But Chris, give us a little kind of sneak peek into some of the things going on here.

0:49:59
 (Chris Griffin)
 Big shout out, I don't know if she signed on. I thought I might have seen seen her register. Julie Kagey with ESCA. So, you know, we're there's there's everybody's talking about sustainability and I'm I'm not the guy to run a sustainability committee But I'm probably I think Julie said well, that's one of the reasons I want you to help me to just deliver a quick update and She was able to grab, you know, 10 things we're all doing that you might not even realize we're doing, but it is moving the ball downfield in the

0:50:31
 (Chris Griffin)
 subject of good sustainable practices. I said to Chris earlier, I was like, you know, we all remember high school keg parties and, you know, the 13 girl sleepover that your daughter had and the county fair and whatever, these big messes and somebody had to clean it up after and or someone got in trouble.

0:50:55
 (Chris Griffin)
 And now we're just a global world of business people and we do all these events. And yeah, somebody cleans it up, but I don't think we do it in a very good way. And one of the ways we can improve that is using better materials when we build, it used to be more expensive. It's not anymore. And what Julie reminded

0:51:14
 (Chris Griffin)
 us, first of all, another positive that came from pandemic, we're living on zoom and mediums like this. So there's, there's less people flying for business events and you go, oh, that's not a good thing. No, it still doesn't mean we're not going to have a robust industry. But that lowers a carbon footprint. If we have, you know, if six people don't get on a plane for a company meeting, they can do it via Zoom. Renewable energy, man, the venues, the convention centers

0:51:47
 (Chris Griffin)
 are absolutely pouring money into solar and wind and alternative energy stuff. I always used to joke about, you know, as a labor company, we had 100% renewable energy product, right? And our energy plan was based on meals and naps. And then they would come back and they would be 100% charged the next day. The waste management, crushing, recycling,

0:52:15
 (Chris Griffin)
 reusable boots are back. The aluminum products we're using, which are lighter weight, you know, less, obviously it's great for your material handling bill, but they can be stripped and cleaned. I mean, we have three or 4,000 aluminum frames in our inventory and they're really well-made and they can be cleaned and reused, right?

0:52:40
 (Chris Griffin)
 We've got fabric graphics that are being made out of recycled material. We have carpeting that's being recycled. All of that is actually happening now. You've got freight carriers that are thinking about the logistical planning of how shipments are consolidated, shorter routes. It's not all dedicated trucks. Most people are thinking no longer about single use of something. They're using it more than once, but I can

0:53:05
 (Chris Griffin)
 on your 20 foot boot, I can wrap up your 20 foot mural or two 10 foot fabric murals and you can put them in your laptop bag and take them with you after the show. And then your hardware, your framework and your reception counter, your lead station can all go back to the local place, which is 4.6 miles from that venue, right? There's all kinds of cool stuff like that. Anyway, so I'd love to share that list and let people look at that,

0:53:30
 (Chris Griffin)
 but it gives you some meaningful stuff you can share with your client. If you get asked, what are you doing about, you know, sustainable practices?

0:53:39
 (Chris Dunn)
 Right, and we are being asked, right? So this is a proactive move that we have to make. We're, I wouldn't say inundated with RFPs, but there's a fair amount of them coming at us, which is great. And the bulk of them ask about our sustainability practice.

0:53:54
 (Chris Dunn)
 So five years ago-

0:53:55
 (Chris Griffin)
 We're known as a wasteful industry. You get one elected official, and maybe it's not this administration, maybe it's the next one. But you get one of them that uncovers how wasteful our industry typically has been. And they want to start assigning us what rules and regulations are, and we don't want that. We want to get ahead of this on our own, and we want to be able to

0:54:16
 (Chris Griffin)
 brag to them, because nobody wants the mean parent making the rules.

0:54:21
 (Dana Esposito)
 That is why I love- You don't do being grounded very well. That is why what I love what the EDPA Sustainability Committee worked really hard on. I'm a late joiner to the Sustainability Committee itself, but that committee has done so much work. It's Tommy and Glenn Hansen and there's so many people. The document that they have put together, that PDF, and Chris Griffin, if you reach out to him, he can give it to you.

0:54:49
 (Dana Esposito)
 Really being ahead of the game for our industry. So we're more in control of the sustainability instead of something becoming a rule or a law driven by someone else who doesn't understand the position we're in, we're basically getting ahead of that

0:55:03
 (Dana Esposito)
 is what Chris Griffin's really saying. So it's sustainable material from where it comes from and it oftentimes recycled before we even get our hands on the material. Most of it can be reused and the stuff that can't be reused is repurposed or recycled. I was shocked, amazed, and so impressed with all of the information and the frankly the amount of frigging work that went into that, you guys, unbelievable.

0:55:28
 (Dana Esposito)
 And you gotta remember, these are people from all different competing companies who work together to put that together for the health of the future of our industry.

0:55:35
 (Speaker 7)
 Amazing.

0:55:36
 (Chris Griffin)
 You mentioned and Glenn Hansen just triggered. So we did this for EDPA Access this past December, it was the very first time. People said, well, what's the carbon footprint of your, now you can care about that, you can not care about that, but this is something we should know. So he literally tracked through a questionnaire,

0:55:55
 (Chris Griffin)
 how did you get here? Did you fly? Did you drive? How many of you were on the plane? We tracked our food consumption. The hotel gave information about the electrical usage of what we did. We didn't know what an event cost or footprint looks like, carbon footprint looks like. But now we have a benchmark to start moving forward and improving. And by the way, if you've not ever traveled internationally lately, and I've done that three times this year, I'm filling out my questionnaire for my airline ticket,

0:56:26
 (Chris Griffin)
 and they're asking me where I'm coming from, and there's a fee that I'm paying to offset my carbon footprint. Europe's already doing it in ways we weren't even thinking about, but it's time that we pay attention to that.

0:56:39
 (Chris Griffin)
 You can not like it, but you can't ignore it.

0:56:44
 (Speaker 6)
 Yeah, excellent. Well, like I said, that's gonna be a whole show You cannot like it, but you can't ignore it Yeah

0:56:45
 (Chris Dunn)
 Excellent. Well, like I said, that's that's gonna be a whole show just just on that So this is just a little precursor, but thanks for bringing that to the table again. There's a PDF We're gonna put it into the show notes. So that will be available after the fact. So hey, we're gonna start wrapping up here This is the event marker just toolbox. I'm showing off my fancy customized sneakers. Look at that logo right there. Boom. Bingo. I'm afraid to wear these because they're too nice.

0:57:13
 (Chris Griffin)
 11D. You're gifting those to guests. 11D.

0:57:18
 (Speaker 5)
 11D.

0:57:19
 (Chris Dunn)
 Size 11. Don't hold your breath on getting those. They're going to take a little bit of time. Super. But that's a great idea. All right. So the toolbox here, we're building this community,

0:57:33
 (Chris Dunn)
 like-minded event people. We're having conversations every week, Thursday at noon. Thanks so much for a bunch of folks who are checking in here. Again, the recording is available on podcast platforms and you can watch us in the future to see just how handsome we are in real life and pretty as well for

0:57:52
 (Chris Dunn)
 Dana. Less handsome, more attractive. All right. Chris, how do people find you? Obviously you brought a wealth of knowledge to the table. This is just scratching the surface. So this guy's got a ton of experience and information. What's the best way to reach out to you?

0:58:09
 (Chris Griffin)
 You know what, if we're not connected on LinkedIn, I'd say hit me up and make me part of your personal network. That's probably the fastest, easiest way. And I'm good about responding to that. So let's connect.

0:58:24
 (Chris Dunn)
 There you go. That's awesome. Listen, you started off with an introduction and God bless, you're involved in all of these different organizations and you're taking time because you have a full-time gig and you're doing all these things for the betterment of our community, for the betterment of our industry. So we really appreciate all the effort you're putting into it.

0:58:45
 (Chris Dunn)
 Thank you so much, not only for joining us here today, but really the time that you spend above and beyond things you get paid for to make our industry better and thriving. So thanks so much, I guess, on behalf of the toolbox community, as it were.

0:59:00
 (Chris Griffin)
 Appreciate you saying that. This is just my turn, which will be coming to an end fairly soon, so hoping there's some folks inspired enough to grab their mitt and get in the game.

0:59:10
 (Chris Dunn)
 There we go. You know, we always end with three actionable takeaways. I feel like we maybe at least do one because we're running super late. But Chris, can you leave us with like one thing that people can kind of take away from this?

0:59:31
 (Chris Griffin)
 I would say get involved, get to know, you know, you're doing it with your customer. We don't sell stuff anymore, right? We truly are partners and lean into what that means and get to know your clients and what their needs are. And if they care about ROI and how they're spending their money, you have information they need. I know you got to transition

0:59:51
 (Chris Griffin)
 to the stuff that's going to make you some money and make your company some money. I just think the way to do that is to really, the quote is from the One Minute Manager guy, I will have more fun and enjoy more financial success when I stop trying to get what I want and I start helping other people get what they want. So, Spencer Johnson.

1:00:13
 (Dana Esposito)
 I like that.

1:00:14
 (Chris Dunn)
 Awesome, that's a great way to leave it. So, see you guys, I appreciate you. Thank you so much, take care. And everybody, happy exhibiting, happy eventing out there. Enjoy the rest of your week. Cheers.

1:00:26
 (Chris Dunn)
 We'll see you on the toolbox next week. Take care everybody. Take care everybody.

1:00:29
 (Dana Esposito)
 Bye everybody.