EMT #39 with Jim Obermeyer - Sustainability Standards: Shaping the Future of Live Events

The events industry is at a turning point—and sustainability is no longer optional.

In this episode of Event Marketer’s Toolbox, Chris Dunn and co-host Dana Esposito welcome Jim Obermeyer, Regional VP at Bray Leino Events and co-chair of the EDPA/ESCA Sustainability Committee. With more than 40 years of industry experience, Jim shares how a once-small committee has grown into a passionate 28-person task force reshaping the way events are planned, built, and measured.

This episode dives into the creation of Version 2 of the industry’s sustainability guidelines, the need for cross-association collaboration, and the practical steps event professionals can take to reduce waste, reuse smarter, and rethink how live experiences impact the planet.

• Why sustainability matters now
  Post-pandemic, clients and the industry alike are demanding measurable action—moving beyond “green talk” into accountability.
• Inside Version 2 of the Guidelines
  A more detailed, practical playbook with scoring and action steps to help companies start small and grow sustainable practices.
• Collaboration across associations
  EDPA, ESCA, IFES, and Exhibitor Advocate are aligning efforts to avoid fragmented standards and drive unified progress.
• Real-world examples of change
  From Brumark’s carpet recycling program to reusable banding, rental inventories, and creative reuse of graphics and materials.
• Global perspectives & the road ahead
  Europe leads with “sustainability-first” design, while U.S. companies focus on rental and storage—both shaping a greener future for live events.

Sustainability in events isn’t solved in one leap—it’s built one decision at a time. As Jim emphasized, the key is to start small, involve your partners, and keep building.

If you’re ready to take meaningful steps, check out the EDPA sustainability resources (linked in show notes) and begin with one actionable change today.

🎧 Catch the full episode to hear Jim’s insights, real-world examples, and a clear vision for the future of live events.

👉🏼 Join us for more insightful discussions like this by tuning into 'Event Marketer's Toolbox,' where industry leaders share the tools, tactics, and trends driving success in the event world.

This Show is sponsored by Blue Hive

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Introductions
• 5:39 Why Sustainability Matters Now
• 7:59 The EDPA Sustainability Committee
• 12:49 Breaking Down the Guidelines
• 15:09 Real-World Solutions
• 20:29 Lessons from Europe
• 28:39 Version 2 of the Guidelines
• 38:59 Client Pressure & RFPs
• 43:29 Key Takeaways from Jim
• 46:39 Wrap-Up & Resources

Transcript

0:00:01

(Chris Dunn)

Hey, hello, and welcome to the Event Marketers Toolbox. I hope everybody's having a great day out there. I am Chris Dunn. I am with Blue Hive Exhibits. I am also in Las Vegas for a show. I snuck away to my hotel room to make things happen here, but I'm joined by my co -worker and co -host, Dana Esposito. 

0:00:20

(Chris Dunn)

Hey, Dana, how's it going? 

0:00:22

(Dana Esposito)

Hey, Chris. 

0:00:23

(Speaker 1)

Sorry I called you so early to wake you up and make you work. 

0:00:26

(Chris Dunn)

That's OK. 

0:00:27

(Chris Dunn)

It's part of the travel package. 

0:00:29

(Speaker 1)

So hi, I'm Dana Esposito. I'm the EVP of Strategy at Blue Hive. Long background of exhibit design, corporate leadership, and creative leadership. And we get to talk to today Jim Obermeyer, who's the Vice President of Bray -Leno Events. So Jim, can you introduce yourself and give us a little bit of background bio? 

0:00:48

(Jim Obermeyer)

Yes, absolutely. Thank you for having me here. I really appreciate it. I am with Brelino Events, based in the UK. We are a live events and exhibition company that works with partners here in the US to basically handle your clients' work anywhere outside of this country. So we are a global company. 

0:01:07

(Jim Obermeyer)

We're based in the UK. We have offices in Singapore and Abu Dhabi, and we can work pretty much anywhere. I have been in the industry for I hate to say this, almost 45 years. What? Did my first trade show in 1981. So yeah, we've seen a little bit. 

0:01:26

(Jim Obermeyer)

Owned my own company for 15 years as well. 

0:01:29

(Dana Esposito)

Excellent. 

0:01:30

(Chris Dunn)

That is amazing. Three of us, we're over 100 years of experience right here. 

0:01:36

(Speaker 1)

So we're going to say some... 

0:01:37

(Chris Dunn)

Shut your mouth, Chris. 

0:01:39

(Speaker 1)

We're going to say some wicked smart stuff. I get to be the young one on this call, though. 

0:01:44

(Chris Dunn)

That doesn't always happen. 

0:01:46

(Chris Dunn)

Not always, not always. 

0:01:48

(Chris Dunn)

Well, this is awesome. Jim, thank you so much for joining us. We're going to talk sustainability today. And this is a piece, a conversation that, you know, has been happening. on the, you know, in, in our industry for a long time, no one's really come on, come up with, you know, the magic bullet, there is no really easy answer to this. But we're going to dive in, and we're going to talk a little bit about your involvement with the EDPA, what you're doing, and how you guys are kind of what the vision is to move this forward. 

0:02:20

(Chris Dunn)

So before I do that, before we get into the meat and potatoes of the event, what I want to do is talk a little bit about our sponsorship. So here on the Event Marketers Toolbox, we have two sponsors. One is Blue Hive Exhibits. This is the company that Dana and I work for. Every week, I think about, what do I want to say about Blue Hive? Who are we, and what do we do? 

0:02:46

(Chris Dunn)

Blue Hive is a creative agency. We feel like we're in that right size to help a lot of different exhibitor types. We're about 100 people strong. We're bigger than a boutique. We have a lot more resources, yet at the same time, we're not so big that you're going to become a number and you're just going to become just a number on a spreadsheet. We have a great creative team led by Dana. 

0:03:13

(Chris Dunn)

We have East Coast and West Coast production, storage, So we help our clients really kind of manage their entire exhibit programs across North America and as Jim had mentioned, also globally. And then in addition to that, we have the support of our great partners at Fist Bump. Fist Bump is a group I came across a couple of years ago. Initially, the idea was like, hey, this LinkedIn thing is happening. I need some help. here kind of working for my own personal brand and the Blue Hive brand. 

0:03:48

(Chris Dunn)

And what that led to was conversations about being thought leaders, being out in front of people and top of mind. And the idea of this podcast was kind of born in those conversations. And I'm so happy to say that here we are where this is episode number 39. We've been doing this every week since the beginning of the year. And we get to have these great conversations with amazing people from all over the exhibition and event realm. And folks like Jim, who's going to share what he's been working on, what the team's been working on with sustainability. 

0:04:22

(Chris Dunn)

So what our goals are, what we're trying to do, is build a community of like -minded event people who are trying to get out in front of things. We're sharing ideas. This is not just an ad for any particular brand. It's really creating conversations across the board. important conversations that kind of need to happen and can move the needle. 

0:04:45

(Chris Dunn)

So with that, I'll end my babble and I'll kick it over to Dana to start the questions with Jim. 

0:04:53

(Speaker 1)

Sure. So Jim, obviously we're talking about sustainability. 

0:04:56

(Jim Obermeyer)

Can you tell us and our audience why sustainability matters now? You know, that's an interesting question now. It has mattered. It does matter. It will continue to matter. But I think what seems to be happening right now in this industry is coming out of the pandemic, we've started to focus a lot more on sustainability. 

0:05:23

(Jim Obermeyer)

Some of that's driven by our clients, our corporate marketers that are pushing that. But a lot of it's driven by just the energy in this industry saying, guys, we need to do something here. We can't just be passive about this. 

0:05:38

(Speaker 1)

And I think that's what's building the energy now. 

0:05:41

(Jim Obermeyer)

So do you see a growing pressure for event organizers to adopt measurable and sustainable practices? Oh, yes. And it starts with the venue, the show owner, the show organizer. 

0:05:54

(Speaker 1)

I mean, it works its way through all parts of our industry. 

0:06:00

(Chris Dunn)

Chris? Jim, as mentioned, you are part of a group, part of the EDPA. So EDPA is Exhibit Designers and Producers Association. I have been to a number of events offered by not only the EDPA national, but also EDPA local. And I know Dana's very active in that group as well. Can you tell us, I guess, a little bit about this group that's kind of come together? 

0:06:29

(Chris Dunn)

We talked a little bit before we went to the record mode here, but you were voluntold a while back to kind of, you know, just nudge you, but you're passionate about this, this thing. And I was actually talking about you know the amount of waste and anybody who spends time on the show floor sees it we see the piles and piles of you know the flooring and the and the plastic and the skids and just all the stuff right there's sending building a city of a branded city for all these brands you know it takes it takes time and energy and it takes materials and stuff like that so this is kind of we've operated in a certain way for a long time but we're finally you know, trying to move the needle on changing things. So tell us a little bit about the behind the scenes of the EDPA sustainability group and kind of what you guys are working on. 

0:07:21

(Jim Obermeyer)

Are there different subgroups that are focused on different things or what does that look like? Yeah, it's so a little bit of history. The EDPA sustainability committee started in 2018. There were, I think, three members on the committee and they had started the process of saying, guys, we need to address this in this industry. Of course, then 2020 hits, pandemic hits, and things shut down, the sustainability shut down. 

0:07:46

(Jim Obermeyer)

And then we kind of restarted it, I would say, 2022, 2023. It's like, guys, we can't ignore this. And that's when I got involved in it. I'm on the EDPA board. So that was, yes, volatile, but it was not a problem. So what's interesting to me, though, we started that with two or three people. 

0:08:09

(Jim Obermeyer)

we are now a couple of years later, this committee has, the last time I looked, and I do keep track of committee members, the last time I looked, 28 members on this committee. And I will say that we have a monthly meeting, a full team meeting every month, and the bulk of those people are on that call every time. I mean, this is a very passionate group of people. And there are subgroups, there are people that are focused on on the guidelines document, which I know we'll dive into in a little bit. But there's also people focused on just promoting sustainability within our industry. And there's people, we've created a new video, we've updated our website, we're just trying to get the word out about sustainability and get this. 

0:08:56

(Jim Obermeyer)

And beyond, yes, this committee is the EDPA and ESCA, the Service Contractors Association, there are ESCA members and EDPA members on this committee. 

0:09:06

(Speaker 1)

But It's not just about this segment, it's about the entire industry. What I love and what I'm really proud about is so the EDPA, if people don't know, the Experiential Designers and Producers Association, basically it's a nonprofit group that people from anybody in the industry can become a member of. And if you are a member, you can also be on different committees. So if you can imagine Jim saying there's 28 people on this particular committee, there's many committees, and there's always going to be board member also on that committee as well. And the committee members are made up of people like us, like say at an exhibit company. 

0:09:49

(Speaker 1)

We create, design, provide, build, store exhibits. There are a lot of our competitors who are very similar to what we can provide on that same committee. And then there are our partners and vendors and all these different types of providers that we work with all the time. But essentially, it's competitors in the industry coming together for the good of the future of the industry. So I always think that's so powerful to understand. 

0:10:15

(Chris Dunn)

the core of EDPA, everything is always for the good. And I've got to imagine, we're all humans living here on this earth. We're trying to do our best in our own personal lives. I was pointing out earlier, I'm drinking, this is water in a can. It's not a beer. I have been known to drink beer on our show before, but not this particular time. 

0:10:42

(Chris Dunn)

But little things, like stop making everything in plastic. let's get smarter about how we're packaging things. So some of it is sometimes just this simple. Do we need to put, you know, shrink wrap on every single skid or can we just band it with something? Can we use, you know, reusable banding? So, I mean, there's a gazillion different little aspects that we can address everything from the way we build to how we move freight across the country, to the materials that we're building with, like all of these things are factors. 

0:11:17

(Chris Dunn)

And it seems like I know this is the adage, right? It's like, how do you eat elephant one bite at a time? And this is an elephant, right? This, this is a massive thing. Where do you even start? Like, so you guys have these monthly meetings. 

0:11:32

(Chris Dunn)

Do they tend to be chunky? up into small pieces? Today, we're talking transportation. Tomorrow, we're talking, or next month, we're talking about the materials used on the show floor. The next week, month, sorry, we're talking building materials. 

0:11:47

(Jim Obermeyer)

Do you break it up in a way that you can look at each kind of segment in a more bite -sized fashion? Actually, that's a great question because At each one of these monthly meetings, we typically have a guest speaker. And the guest speaker will be from one of those segments that you're talking about. We've had the carpet guys talk to us. We've had transportation guys talk to us. So you're right. 

0:12:13

(Jim Obermeyer)

I mean, we do look at different aspects of this industry where sustainability has to be addressed. And we're bringing people in from different parts just to talk about how they're doing it. What are the issues and how are you addressing those issues? And the sustainability guidelines document that was created by this group breaks it down to that level. The goal with that document was to make it enough detail that, you know, if I'm an owner of an exhibit house company, and I know I need to address sustainability, what do I do first? How do I start this? 

0:12:47

(Jim Obermeyer)

Well, you open that document, you find some weight, I could do that right now. So let's implement that right now. And then, you know, the next thing, okay, let's work on that one next. 

0:12:57

(Speaker 1)

And the idea was to give people you know, help them get into this, help them get started, help them get moving. So I joined the sustainability committee and I'm late in joining. What I mean by that is I'm one of their If you go from number one to 28 and probably number 27 or something like that. So by the time I joined, Jim and the rest of the team and the committee have done an amazing like heavy lift amount of work, and not only getting all the research in from, like, like say for us so we are an exhibit house. beyond the things we can do internally, like housekeeping, like beyond what we can control on a daily basis. For us, a lot of that is, well, where the material that we're getting, where is it from? 

0:13:40

(Speaker 1)

If it's wood, was it sustainably harvested? Was it already recycled before we received it, same thing with like aluminum. And then it's like any of the materials that we have, what's the full life cycle of it? So say we're bringing carpet in, was it carpet made from recycled plastic bottles? And then what happens to it after it's used? Is it reused? 

0:14:00

(Speaker 1)

Is it repurposed? or if it's going to be disposed of, is it going in a landfill or is it going to reuse some other way? So I was blown away with the amount of work that Jim and team had done to really already do that research on all these different materials and how to implement them. And one really good example you might want to mention, I just think it's a good example because it's easy to absorb how great of a solution is, was like what Brumar came up with, with the carpeting, if you want to tell that story. 

0:14:31

(Jim Obermeyer)

little piece. Well, they are. Yes, Brumark is just and this is just recently they've announced this, they've they've developed a recycling system for their carpet. So your typical show carpet that gets used once and thrown in a dumpster is not happening anymore. They're collecting it, they're bringing it back, they're using it, they're creating other products from this used carpet, so it is not going to waste. So that and that's just one example of, you know, taking a deeper look at this industry and the individual elements in this industry, and what can you do to reduce that? 

0:15:07

(Jim Obermeyer)

You mentioned the reusable banding. Absolutely. I mean, we're seeing companies now come out with the reusable straps versus the metal banding that typically just gets thrown away. 

0:15:18

(Jim Obermeyer)

So each part of this industry is starting to look at, okay, what can we do to fix this? 

0:15:24

(Chris Dunn)

Right. I know when we first formed Blue Hive, and I started in 2005, so initially we rolled out an initiative in probably 2006 called Green Bee, and we were trying to get out in front of the sustainability movement at that point. It was a lot about, you know, the materials being used, the laminates, the wood, so forth. Are you using plywood that doesn't have the nasty, you know, glue stuff in it? Are you using, you know, veneers, wood veneers versus, you know, plastic laminates and stuff like that? And what we found on the front end was it was a great conversation. 

0:16:02

(Chris Dunn)

People wanted to do the right thing. And it was 30 % more to do it right, or to make it in a sustainable fashion. So that's probably also part of the situation. It's difficult for a movement to hit a momentous velocity if it's always much more expensive to do things the right way. So that's, I'm sure, part of what you're addressing as well. It's like, how do we make this work? 

0:16:31

(Jim Obermeyer)

mainstream enough and be adopted by enough people that it's not more expensive to do this in a way that is beneficial for the planet and for the people. And I think that was definitely an issue when we started with this, was it was a lot more expensive to be sustainable. And I think what we're seeing now, though, when I look at some of these guidelines and look at some of the recommendations and suggestions, It is not as it's not that we're getting past that where the cost is not what it was. 

0:17:05

(Chris Dunn)

I mean, it's it's much more even now. So excellent. That's that's certainly good to hear. And I'm I'm glad we kind of looked at or shining the light on some of those little, you know, those little details. I know, you know, from a sustainability standpoint, big picture, tons of folks are using metal frame systems, whether it's the Matrix, AluVision, Nexus, whatever it is, right? These are frames that are used probably 30, 40, 50 times sometimes, you know, so that in and amongst itself, the building, the main component of the building of exhibits has really changed dramatically from being all would in the past 20 years ago to really heavily leaning into systems. 

0:17:50

(Chris Dunn)

Systems have a lot of benefits. They also make a lot of exhibits look very similar. It's harder to stand out. you know, the common processes or materials that are being used, like metal frame systems, and then covering those with fabrics as opposed to covering wood with laminates that require glue. I mean, there's a lot of things that are inherent in the way the business works now that I think are certainly a giant step forward from probably where we were. you know, the whole term of, uh, that's more of a European term, the build and burn where literally you build something and come with a tractor and crush it and stuff it into a dumpster or burn it in the parking lot or something. 

0:18:49

(Chris Dunn)

Right. 

0:18:49

(Speaker 1)

The vision created from things like that are scary. I think this is how it was being done for so long. Um, And I think rental, whether it's the frames that you're renting, the inner structure, like the aluminum tube, say, for hanging sign structures, and even the traditional wooden laminate cabinetry, reception desk, like so many providers, like we have. 

0:19:15

(Jim Obermeyer)

and BrainLeno, we have rental large inventories of things that were built custom, they were designed custom, and the fact that they're in our rental inventory and we keep them up there to always look tip -top shape, the fact that it's rental, that in itself is such a huge sustainable thing. Yes, a lot of mileage out of it. Yeah. And that's, you know, part of the, I want to go back to the build and burn because the company I'm with is based in Europe. And that was a huge thing. I mean, that was, that was what drove a lot of sustainability issues in Europe was trying to stop that build and burn practice. 

0:19:57

(Jim Obermeyer)

And And it was because it was much more prevalent there than it has been here in the US. 

0:20:03

(Speaker 1)

But yeah, the idea of these aluminum systems using fabric instead of PVC, and, you know, using rental systems instead of buying new every time. I mean, yeah, I mean, those are, those are definitely some of the things that are happening now. that are bringing that sustainability to us. Yeah. And overseas, when they answer, like, you know, we have a couple of really trusted partners and, and I've met people when I've gone to, say, Euroshop or whatnot, and I've asked them about that. And their answer is different, because say in the States, we have a lot more space, right? 

0:20:41

(Speaker 1)

So it's easier for us to store client owned properties. It's easier for us to store rental properties for them. They have to be much more selective about what they're storing because they don't always have the space that we don't, we don't even realize how much space we have over here in the U S right. Um, so, um, they have to be, you know, really cognizant of that. So like one particular partner, they have like their hospitality cabinets, like their own wheels. It's a hospitality cabinets always set up and solid. 

0:21:10

(Speaker 1)

with real plates. And, um, you know, cause they're always serving food and coffee cups and that sort of thing. And so they'll have like hundreds of those. that they use. And in the exhibit, the exhibit might still be what I would consider a built -in barn, but they will deliberately repurpose parts of it. And I'm like, well, what do you mean? 

0:21:28

(Speaker 1)

Because if I see you spackling a wall on show site, I'm thinking you're never going to use that wall again when you tear it down. And they said that they won't use it as a wall necessarily again. Depending on the exhibit, they pick and choose what they're able to repurpose. So it once might be a wall, but the next time that pieces use, they've ripped it on like a saw and they're able to use it as the base of like inside of a raised floor, like the ties, you know what I'm talking about. So you might not see it, so it doesn't matter that it doesn't look beautiful because it's purely structural at that point. Where here in the States, we're going to approach sustainability differently because we have the luxurious space. 

0:22:11

(Speaker 1)

So we're going to do a lot more rental. We're going to clients that when they own things, we're going to store those for them. You know, we can have a ton of aluminum frame systems or whatever, you know, whatever system of your choice is, we have all that. So just the reuse alone is such a huge encompassing element to the sustainable portion, that when we then take into the elements that like Jim and the Sustainability Committee attack for us, like flooring and visqueen and just all the other things that we can't control as much, right, because we're getting it in from someplace else as part of the whole exhibit, that makes a huge difference. And I remember the sustainability committee, they were really driving this because we wanted to get ahead of it. Yes, it's the right thing to do. 

0:22:59

(Speaker 1)

Yep. But we want to get ahead of it because we know at some point, the government and other entities are going to be like, look, we want to look at this industry. We know it's a necessary industry and it's purposeful and it needs to exist, but maybe we need to look at it and we're going to put restrictions on it. And we're like, no, no, no. We'd rather do that ahead of the game because Although we're not making laws we're making guidelines and we're already doing all that research so the sustainability committee the document that Jim and his team has put together is amazing because they've literally already solved a lot of things in the positive way that someone in the industry would do it versus someone outside of the industry just slapping like a blanket, do this, or you can't do this anymore. 

0:23:49

(Speaker 1)

We've already solved any of the ramifications that, you know, it's, it's different when you're, you know, you're building a house because you've already lived, you've, you know, you, you know what you need, right? 

0:24:00

(Chris Dunn)

Like I'm not a restaurant designer. I used to work in restaurants, so I could at least probably design a restaurant, because I know what they functionally need. I know what they can't get away without, versus if I had never worked in a restaurant, I'm like, I'm going to design a restaurant. I'm not going to be successful at that. So the committee has really put so much intelligent problem solving ahead of the game, which is, I was just so impressed when I saw the document. You know, Dana, you brought up a couple examples, and this is a couple of the things that I've seen as far as how companies are are reusing things, repurposing things, not only for benefit and cost savings for themselves, but because it leans into that sustainability factor. 

0:24:45

(Chris Dunn)

So the idea of taking old Sintra graphics and using those as crate liners is, in a lot of cases, slide those things in so that the panels that live on top can slide in and out easily. Certainly the carpet 

0:24:59

(Speaker 1)

a lot of old carpeting is used for creating, you know, we're making, you know, jigsticks and covering them with carpet and so forth. So we're protecting the pieces that are being built, the cabinets, the walls, and so forth. And then the idea of, and I've seen a lot of folks or some exhibit companies do this great, is take old fabric graphics and turn those graphics into bags to protect furniture or to protect other parts and pieces. So just the fact that this movement is existing, I think by nature, Exhibit companies are creative groups right so just turning our attention to the fact of like we're generating all this stuff all this Then those things that are potentially wasteful. How do we potentially utilize more of them? You know and do the right thing with those also and I've worked at a couple of different companies now and what I've seen also is out, like there are things that we control, things that we can't, right? 

0:26:02

(Speaker 1)

We control what comes in, we control sometimes what happens afterwards. If there are options of what it can, if it only can go to the trash, then there's not a lot that we can do other than like, okay, let's be smart, let's use it to jig, you know, when we're jigging a crate or that sort of thing. But now that it's become big enough and the team had, The sustainability team has pulled in so many partners or vendors. Now it's much easier. and streamlined to be sustainable because you don't you don't have to try so hard like where the material comes from you can you can task your partners and vendors and say hey I'm going to buy this stuff from you but I need to know what have you already tasked yourself with for it to be sustainable in some way is it where it came from is where it goes like what's the full life cycle right and I've also seen exhibit companies you know deliver have specific bins for their scrap. 

0:26:58

(Speaker 1)

Right. 

0:26:59

(Chris Dunn)

And but where does that go? 

0:27:00

(Jim Obermeyer)

Like, where does the wood scrap go? Where does the sintra go? Where does the aluminum go? And some of the some of the elements in the document help outline some of that stuff that you can think about as an exhibit designer and builder, too. Like, what are the resources at your hand for materials to go to? 

0:27:20

(Speaker 1)

Right. And one of the things that we've done when we started this was, you mentioned the dumpsters and where does this one go? 

0:27:26

(Jim Obermeyer)

Where does that one go? I mean, we literally found companies out there that were not even aware of this industry, but they were aluminum recyclers, for instance, or they were, you know, PVC recyclers, but they didn't even know this industry existed. So now all of a sudden, they're looking at this going, Oh, my God, look at all this raw material we can collect and reuse. So that's, you know, that's one of the things the document did was kind of bring some of that to our attention, you know, that this is something we can do. Jim, is the document, all that work that you guys is available for EDPA company members only? Like what, what is, how is that happening? 

0:28:05

(Jim Obermeyer)

It is, well, it was initially released to EDPA members and ESCA members, and it is now available to anyone that wants to look at it. There is a version two that we are close to releasing, and basically what we did was we sent the first version to our EDPA membership. We sent them a survey and said, guys, tell us what do you think of this document? Was this useful? Is it something you could use? Is there something did we miss? 

0:28:34

(Jim Obermeyer)

What do we need to look at? And we've gotten some good response back on that. We've also looked at it and said, we gave them all these ideas, let's put some kind of scoring so that you can say, well, I've done that, I've done this, I've done that. So there is a version two, it is not ready for release yet, but it is close. That will just build on what we've started with. And the other part of this, frankly, is we've got to coordinate this with other parts of our industry. 

0:29:05

(Jim Obermeyer)

Yes, ESCA and EDPA are doing this. What about the venue managers? 

0:29:09

(Speaker 1)

What about show organizers? 

0:29:10

(Jim Obermeyer)

What about the other aspects of our industry that are not covered by EDPA and ESCA? And that's really a big part of it right now. Looking at it, you've got IFAS, you've got all these other organizations that are addressing sustainability now. 

0:29:29

(Speaker 1)

Well, what we don't need is eight different documents that all say all different things. 

0:29:33

(Jim Obermeyer)

We need to get this coordinated. 

0:29:35

(Dana Esposito)

So if someone in the audience doesn't know what ESCA is, can you explain that? 

0:29:42

(Chris Dunn)

ESCA is the Exhibit Service Contractors Association. whereas EDPA is Exhibit Designers and Producers. So ESCA is, you know, the freight companies, the carpet companies, the labor companies, whereas EDPA is the Exhibit Designers and Builders. And what, same question for IFAS, if people don't know what IFAS is. I think IFAS is more of an, it's an international federation of exhibits. So it's, it is a global association that we are trying to coordinate with as well. Gotcha. 

0:30:16

(Chris Dunn)

And I know, you know, us Us as an industry trying to do this for benefit is one thing. We're also being pushed by our clients. Like almost every RFP that comes in nowadays has a note in there about like, tell us what your sustainability initiatives look like. So that's a good thing too, right? Without that push from the folks who are ultimately going to hire us and pay us our incentive. lessened. 

0:30:46

(Chris Dunn)

But if it's got to be part of the process, and to just kind of put a bow on that particular piece, it doesn't all fall to the exhibit company or the manufacturer. 

0:30:58

(Chris Dunn)

or us as a manufacturer that is buying things and then turning around and manufacturing, we look at our vendors and suppliers, as Dana had said, the folks who are making the fabric. Guys, tell me about this fabric. What's the percentage of recycled materials that are in the fabric? purchasing certain products, we're, we're participating in that process of improving the sustainability, um, within the industry. You know, tell me about this aluminum 50 % recycled. Okay. 

0:31:28

(Chris Dunn)

That's great. Um, I think my sneakers, you know, all the sneakers across the board now, uh, have recycled plastic bottles, uh, that, that are a main component of how they're doing it. So, I mean, as much as we're generating a ton of crap and, and not doing good things with it, like there, there are a lot of efforts out there. to make things better. 

0:31:48

(Jim Obermeyer)

And I think, obviously, the more we bang the drum on it, the more and the more creativity and, you know, researchers and so forth who get involved in this thing that I think the more the more solutions that are going to come about, which is great. And that's kind of that, that steers towards that, that what you just mentioned that statement, Jim, about like, we can't have eight different groups siloed, working on their own initiatives. Like we got to bring the bigger team together to get the benefit of the overall group. And I'm sure there'll be some bickering about like, well, you know, this is the, this is the right way to do it. 

0:32:24

(Chris Dunn)

That's the right way to do it. But then I think the benefits that can come from a group like that would look far out for the negative. Yes. And there are, obviously there are specifics for each area. The venue managers have very specific things for their venues, for instance, you know, the exhibit designers and producers, very specific things about how we design and produce. 

0:32:42

(Chris Dunn)

So there are specifics for each group, but we also want to look at the overall picture of this industry and how can we make sure that we're coordinating all this sustainability efforts. Absolutely. 

0:32:56

(Speaker 1)

So we do have a question or a comment in here. It's from, unfortunately, I'm not seeing who this is. It just says LinkedIn user. 

0:33:04

(Chris Dunn)

So let us know who you are, but excellent conversation today. Very excited to hear about the Brewmark initiative. Hopefully acrylic countertops and LED edge lit accents will be another focus in the near future. So yeah, a lot of cool stuff is unfortunately also wasteful at the same time or could be, but like, how do we make the most of things like that? Yeah, the LED lights, they were a step into the sustainability direction years ago because of the amount of electricity and they don't give off heat, so they were safer. So like everything, a lot of the things that we talk about now, that we're able to find sustainability solutions or elements of sustainability to them, you know, two years from now, five years from now, those will all continue to improve. 

0:33:55

(Chris Dunn)

Hey, Rob Valente. That was Rob's comment. So, hey, Rob, thanks for weighing in on that. You know, one other thing, too, that I want to, I guess, you know, point out or throw out there, and Granted, I'm not, I'm not a rocket science nut. I haven't invented anything in particular here, but the flat screen TV dramatically changed the way that we build exhibits. I remember when I first started and granted, Jim, you got, you got some time on me. 

0:34:18

(Chris Dunn)

So you dealt with this, but remember the old TVs, the giant fricking caboose on the back, you know, you build a hole in a wall and the TV and the tiny little screen pokes through. And now we've got these enormous things that are super flat. They're that thick and you hang them on a wall. And instead of having to print graphics, you, you know, we have digital signage. And I mean, the cost of these, you know, TVs or screens is so reasonable. 

0:34:44

(Jim Obermeyer)

They're almost like just a consumable product. 

0:34:47

(Chris Dunn)

So like that, I feel like, and that's a bigger picture, right? 

0:34:52

(Chris Dunn)

There's millions of TVs all over the world, well beyond what we use in our industry. But as a whole, making sure that when when we do recycle through flat screens and things like that, making sure those are getting into the right place, right? I think about my town runs an electronics recycling day once a year. Well, I can't make a giant pile of TVs and wait once a year, right? So again, finding those companies that are out there that are recycling, that are pulling the precious metals and the things that are of value in older broken TVs and stuff, and just making sure we're disposing of that stuff in a proper way and not just, you know, building a big pile to put in the earth. 

0:35:32

(Speaker 1)

Yeah, absolutely. 

0:35:35

(Jim Obermeyer)

Awesome. We are at about 35 minutes. We've got another 10 or 15 or so of questions. 

0:35:44

(Chris Dunn)

If folks are out there in the audience, and there's definitely some folks who are checking in, for whatever reason, I'm not seeing names. 

0:35:50

(Jim Obermeyer)

But feel free to drop in any comments or thoughts that you might be having, questions about sustainability. I know, and I know, I'm sorry, go ahead, Dana, take it away. I was just gonna say, if anyone who's listening today would like to see the current sustainability document that the team has assembled to this point, Jim, I know you said there's gonna be a new version coming out, but if someone wanted to either get the current one or to be on some sort of list to see the one coming out, version two, what's the best way for them to have access to that? 

0:36:27

(Speaker 1)

I believe that you can go to the 

0:36:30

(Chris Dunn)

EDPA website, the sustainability page, and there's a link there to the document. 

0:36:36

(Chris Dunn)

There is a sustainability page on the EDPA website, and I believe there is a link there that'll take you to that. 

0:36:42

(Chris Dunn)

Is that just for members only, or can folks that were not members access that? 

0:36:47

(Chris Dunn)

I don't think so. 

0:36:49

(Chris Dunn)

I think it's open to anyone now. It was members only initially, but All right. I'm going to, um, I just gave me like, um, the, the, uh, email, the, a web link for that. So if any, if you want to drop that as like a PDF document as well, we can put that in the, in the show notes and we can do that. Absolutely. Yeah. 

0:37:10

(Chris Dunn)

Perfect. Okay, great. So, uh, James bogey's thing has MPI after had a sustainability panel and they said, dispose of the keys, make it on the paper. and sustainability, I completely see that again. It's cheaper to buy a 44 -inch screen than it is to print a graphic these days. I see a lot of, you know, we work with a lot of companies. 

0:37:33

(Chris Dunn)

Some are renting, some buy their own materials. Sometimes there's a giveaway, you know, posts show like, hey, we just bought a whole bunch of new screens. We're going to give these away either to employees or folks who maybe live in that local community. or donating them to Habitat for Humanity or something like that. There are certainly solutions. Sometimes it just takes being a little creative and looking in the right spot in order to make sure we're doing the right things. 

0:38:00

(Jim Obermeyer)

That show is over. Jimmy, you've got a unique perspective just based on where you work, right? You work for a European, UK -based company, and you talked already a little bit about how They're a little further along. I think the U . S. is maybe trailing in some ways because we've, as Dana mentioned, we've got the benefit of a pretty big country. 

0:38:24

(Jim Obermeyer)

We've got more land, we store things, we've done things differently. Do you see anything that's being done in that European or Asian marketplace that maybe it's like, okay, that's a great idea, that's working, that will come here and push us along those same tracks? I don't know if there's any specific actions that they're doing that we aren't working on doing, but I think it's more the fact that they've just, it's just a much bigger aspect for them when they're talking to clients, when they're talking about projects, the sustainability pieces is wrapped right into it. It's not a case of, oh, let's design this exhibit. Oh, wait, is that sustainable? It's no, they're starting with sustainability from the very beginning. 

0:39:12

(Chris Dunn)

And it's, you know, how do we create this? How do we make this work? How do we operate this event and make it sustainable? And You know, the company I work for does a lot of corporate events, not just exhibition side, but event side. 

0:39:25

(Jim Obermeyer)

And then it's looking at, you know, how do we make registration sustainable? 

0:39:29

(Chris Dunn)

How do we make, you know, we're not giving away things that people are going to throw away after they leave the show. I mean, it's just like every little aspect of it. How do we, how do we really use sustainability to guide how we create these events? Literally like right down to your land, the lanyards that are holding the badges. you know, event wise and show wise, we've all seen these cool little kitschy things that, that, you know, are a badge that lights up or it's got a smart chip in it and you click them together and they talk to each other. Awesome. 

0:40:03

(Chris Dunn)

But what happens to all that stuff when the show's over? 

0:40:06

(Jim Obermeyer)

Exactly. You know, there's gotta be as, as, as much as we're making strides, we're creating new technology that's then creating trash. Think about all these concerts with the, the, the lights, you, you come in, you know, your Taylor Swift concert, and you put something on your arm. And then when the music's playing, like all of the lights, the 65 ,000 people, the lights are on everybody's wrists, they're going off at the same time. And it looks fricking awesome. 

0:40:32

(Jim Obermeyer)

And like, what happens to that stuff after that event? 

0:40:36

(Chris Dunn)

So we're making strides, and we're also losing ground at the same time, I think. Yeah. And I think that's a big aspect of it, from the perspective of, at least for the company I worked for in the UK, is it's when we start planning an event, sustainability is the top of the list. How do we make this event sustainable? And that's, that's, I think, and I, you know, here in the US, we're headed that direction. We're, I mean, we're definitely going that direction. 

0:41:04

(Speaker 1)

We may not be there yet, but we're going that direction. I mean, you look at this industry and the, the amount of effort that the different associations in this industry have put into sustainability, it's definitely going to be there. So excellent. Well, it's good to hear that we're kind of, you know, heading in the, in the right direction. 

0:41:24

(Chris Dunn)

Um, it can be overwhelming and it's such a, it's such a big task, but we're not going to fix it overnight. 

0:41:30

(Chris Dunn)

Um, you know, we got 13 ,500 shows ish just in the U S alone, right? 

0:41:35

(Chris Dunn)

That's a, it's an awful lot of events. That's an awful lot of, uh, of, of waste that's being generated. But if we can, if we can get 1 % better, you know, every couple of weeks, every month or something like that, we're going in the right direction. 

0:41:50

(Speaker 1)

Miele, can you put the link that I sent you in our private chat? Can you go ahead and put that over there in the public chat? 

0:41:59

(Chris Dunn)

Because if people go to that link, it takes you directly to the sustainability page and you can download the sustainability guide as a PDF right from there. 

0:42:09

(Dana Esposito)

It's too large of a PDF to email, but you can download it there. 

0:42:14

(Chris Dunn)

Perfect. 

0:42:15

(Chris Dunn)

Awesome. 

0:42:16

(Chris Dunn)

And James is saying he said those light up wristbands for the Lumineers at Fenway. 

0:42:20

(Chris Dunn)

So fellow Bostonian. Yes, super fun. The Lumineers are excellent, by the way. If you don't know who the Lumineers are, you should listen. I mean, there's gotta be something that lights up at a Lumineers concert because that's what they do. Yeah. 

0:42:34

(Chris Dunn)

Other than your smile. 

0:42:37

(Jim Obermeyer)

Exactly. All right, cool. Well, we're 42 minutes in here. We've had a great conversation. We always like to kind of leave some tidbits, some nuggets with folks. And we've talked about a lot of stuff. 

0:42:51

(Jim Obermeyer)

So Jim, I'm going to put you on the spot here. But if you could leave a couple of takeaways with or for the folks who are either here now live or listening in the future on podcasts. And it might be something you've already said, What do you want to kind of put a bow on as we start the wrap -up process here? You know, I think a couple of things. When we first start talking about sustainability, and you look across this industry and everything that it involves, it can be rather intimidating. And you can, as a small company owner, it's, how do I do this? 

0:43:32

(Jim Obermeyer)

How do I address this? There's so much to do here. So I think part of it is, part of the idea with this guidelines document wasn't to overwhelm the reader, but to give them a place to go and say, wait, I can do that piece. I can start there. And I think that's what I would encourage. Just start with something you can start with, get started on it. 

0:43:56

(Jim Obermeyer)

And then you finish that and you say, okay, I think I can do this over here too. And really, it's about building yourself into this process. You can't take it on all at once. It's intimidating. to, you know, it's just, it's intimidating. So, so pick something, start there, build on that, build on that, build on that. 

0:44:14

(Jim Obermeyer)

And to the point where now you're deeply involved in it. And the other thing is work with your partners, work with your suppliers, work with your clients, talk about this topic. You know, how are you addressing it? You know, I think Dana, you mentioned it earlier, you know, you're buying raw material, where are you getting this raw material from? Where's the, you know, what's that look like? 

0:44:34

(Jim Obermeyer)

you're talking to your clients and say, what do we how are we going to address sustainability for this exhibit we're designing for you? 

0:44:40

(Chris Dunn)

So I think, yeah, it's just I think you just have to step into it, you know, take this first step, get into it, start building your way into it. And then and then and then it will come naturally. So, right. And that's the more that's that's not just for the exhibit designers and builders, but that's for our suppliers. It's for venue managers. It's for show organizers. 

0:45:00

(Chris Dunn)

We've all got to step into it. We've all have to address it. Right. And it's, I mean, even let's dial it all the way back to us as consumers, you know, how are we going to make a choice on the things that we're buying in our, in our life or homes or, or whatever, right. When you go to the store and you're looking at a case of plastic bottle water, you know, we're going to continue to buy that. Or do you buy, you know, a Brita or do you buy, you know, metal bottles that are reusable? 

0:45:25

(Chris Dunn)

Um, I've refilled this bottle. 

0:45:26

(Chris Dunn)

So this was in my Renaissance, you know, hotel room. 

0:45:29

(Chris Dunn)

I've refilled it like seven times already since I've been here. Um, and just little things like that, right. The fill stations that are popping up, uh, in hotels and at airports and stuff like that. Like we're, we're moving, we're making, we're making strides. You see so many more people, you know, walking around with, uh, you know, Hydro flasks and Oda wall is, you know, all of the, all of the different, uh, brands that can become a little bit of a, of a, of a statement piece. Uh, you're walking around with your Yeti coffee cup and everything, but I mean, there's sustainability that, that happens when, when we are. 

0:46:05

(Chris Dunn)

doing less throwing away and more, you know, reusing and recycling and repurposing. 

0:46:12

(Chris Dunn)

That's for sure. 

0:46:13

(Jim Obermeyer)

So cool. Well, this has been an awesome conversation. 

0:46:17

(Chris Dunn)

Really appreciate it, Jim. We had not met prior to this, but it's been really great hearing a little bit about what you're working on and getting to know you a bit better. 

0:46:27

(Speaker 1)

You planted some great seeds on on just how do you do some little things to get started. And certainly that document that we've discussed and that Mila has put in as a link is a great resource. So we'll have that in the show notes as well so that if you're listening to this or you're listening to us in the future, you'll also know where to kind of go to get that. And again, that's a great jumping off point to give you some ideas on how to get going. 

0:46:55

(Chris Dunn)

Awesome. 

0:46:56

(Jim Obermeyer)

Well, thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it. Great opportunity. 

0:47:00

(Speaker 1)

I asked chat GBT about if you took a look at all of our episodes, what's missing and sustainability was actually one thing that came up. 

0:47:13

(Chris Dunn)

But now, they're going to be like, well, we've talked about everything. 

0:47:16

(Chris Dunn)

If you want to talk to Jim more about Bralino, or you want to talk or know more about EDPA, Exhibit Designers and Producers Association, or maybe you're more on the services side, you want to know about ESCA, or you're international, you want to know about IFAS, please reach out to Jim. 

0:47:31

(Chris Dunn)

He is very knowledgeable on all three. I could really only talk to you ad nauseum about EDPA, because I'm very involved and very passionate about that. And Jim, is that where you recommend people to reach out to you via LinkedIn? Absolutely. That's that'd be great. I'd be happy to do what I can for you. 

0:47:50

(Chris Dunn)

Yeah, same for me as well. Awesome. All right, guys. Well, tremendous conversation. I look forward to hopefully lots of folks hearing this. message in the future. 

0:48:01

(Chris Dunn)

For those folks who have been here in live attendance, and we always get this question, it's like, oh, I couldn't watch the episode. 

0:48:09

(Dana Esposito)

This link stays live. 

0:48:10

(Jim Obermeyer)

Uh, you get to see our smiling faces and our, uh, perfectly, you know, chiseled physiques, although really just from the chest up, um, you know, forever and ever on YouTube and here at this link on, on LinkedIn. And then, uh, the episode gets pushed out onto the, into the podcast platforms within a couple of days. So Spotify, Apple music, like all those things, you get to hear, uh, us here on the toolbox chatting weekly with, uh, with, with thought leaders and other folks all around the, uh, the exhibit and the event realm. 

0:48:42

(Speaker 1)

So thanks again for stopping by. We appreciate it. Have a great rest of your week, everybody, and happy eventing. So take care. Thanks for joining. Thank you. 

0:48:52

Be good, everybody. Thanks, Kim. Cheers.